General DiscussionDaedalus on Phantom Assassin?

It's garbage.

^any explanation?

If you are ahead and you don't need utility items it gives you the best dps/cost aside from rapier. I'm sure there is a place for it situationally.

its good

as u can see the above bluestar fangay has 45% pa winrate and is 300 mmr aboveme

^ Its not worth it to ever spend so much gold on something the hero has innately.. same reason I would get daedalus on wk or jugg..

Yes it provides dmg.. but PA usually already has the dmg.. what she needs is a way to survive battles and lock downs sometimes.. what items like bkb,abbysal can provide..

So in the end of the day what I'm trying to say is.. the item is a waste of gold although it provides equitably of dmg.. go for something better.. heck even deso does more for her than daedalus imo.. and it costs way cheaper..

holy shit high mmr dudes are commenting here

I thought that the ways crits worked in dota was that it took the higher percentage crit and only used that one. So doesn't that mean that daedalus PA is just a +81 dmg item?

yes you get it after bkb and abyssal if you don't need linkens or another item

Daedalus and pa crits apply independently

wouldnt be better to go for a mkb them?

93% winrate pa player here, daedalus is Excellent

are the crits separate?

YES both crits work

they both work with dagger also

only conflict is that if both crits proc in 1 hit u will only get the bigger crit : ur ult

okay i'll try a new build on p.a

thank sir esperanza

careful dude u get it after ur core items not right away

so go something like phase vlad deso basher bkb abyssal then daedalus

or treads domi bfury bkb basher abyssal daedalus

as long as u have basher + bkb before you go crit u will be very safe, ive done it with crit before bkb and it works if u are very careful only

if you're going with lifesteal build, daedalus can fit in if you don't need mkb, but still wouldn't recommend in most situation though..

Yes sir, thank you sir

if u get 2 daedelus,almost all hits are crits :P

In most games you will need AC or MKB more. It's like über situational and you folks are making a fuss out of it.

It's pretty good

I always get it. Very good

Remember to stack Daedelus for maximum efficiency

6.4k posting here

reported for terrorism

Yes, but it also means dagger can crit with this item as well, one shotting yet another unsuspecting soul trying to get some farming done. Seriously, when is this blyat dagger going to be nerfed?

dont forget butterfly good sirs

mkb gives you higher dps than daedalus

mkb gives you higher dps than daedalus

*-*

you can't have 2 independent sources of crit

what happens is game will run the chance for first one

let's say x% chance, if that fails then it goes to 2nd and the 2nd has an y% chance to proc

they won't increase each other's damage at all, it increases only from the stats you'd get from those items.

well cookie you cant really stop a guy from wanting to see red thunderbolts with ominous numbers beside them with every hit his hero does

^^
not for the heroes with natural crits.

actually nvm. i sat down and calculated all the stuff, turns out that for the case of pa daedalus gives u 2-5% higher dps, so as long as you are not playing against any heroes with butterfly, radiance, solar crest, halebard, or natural evasion (which is quite a rare case by itself), daedalus is better. however, u need to keep in mind the mini bash effect (i calculated the dmg, but didnt account on the importance of this thing by itself - cancelling tps and channelling spells, stopping targets from running for a moment, etc.)
id suggest not getting any of those in this scenario, though. in short, never going for daed on pa, and only get mkb against evasion. otherwise, go for desolator, basher, and ac/moonshard.

daedalus is the best raw DPS item on pa even when you factor in that it will give 85%(actually more since 81 dmg bonus will always work) of it's "normal" DPS

i don't even know a hero who would get more DPS from an mkb rather than crit(if u don't count in evasion ofc)
i think even if u get 2 daedali on jugg it will give more dps than daed+mkb
i'm too lazy to do the math atm yho

it wont work for 2nd daedalus. 3rd daedalus will be worse even for heroes without crits.
i alrdy did the maths.

you have 0.85*0.25=0.2125= 21% for proccing daedalus crit
it works on pa just like any other hero, but you get 4% decreased crit chance
i don't know why people consider retarded deso on pa
however i would get bloodthorn over deso

same reason why AM doesn't get blink dagger

bloodthrone costs 2x of deso and pa scales into lategame terribly, so u see good players usually going for cheap agressive items - deso, vlads, basher, eventually even armlet; and trying to end the game asap.

^^value input right there boiz, case closed

kappa

Bec im bored i'll do the math
Im not the best dota player so this could be shit..
First off all attck modifiers work the same i think
Eg. mealstrom+skadi
Both can't prok in 1 Hit so if skadi gets picked up before it will always be the skadi, but if the mealstrom is first u can get the mealstrom, if not u have a 100% Chance on the skadi
Same for Spells and Items
Spells are almost always picked up before the item and get priority
Same for pa+daedalus
Pa ult gives a Bonus of 450% for 15% so avrg is 67,5% Bonus
Daedalus gives 220% Bonus for 30% so avrg 66%dmg +81dmg(pa crit isnt actually better on avrg)
With both the daedalus has a 25,5% Chance to proc(85%x30%), this gives a avrg of 56,1% Bonus dmg +81 dmg
with buying the daedalus
Compared to the 122 avrg Bonus dmg of mkb and+ 15 attck Speed i think the daedalus cN be a build on a pa with stats Items like skadi or even Butter
All in all i think even a moon shard can give more dmg than a daedalus sometimes, but sometimes it is a good item with high base attck dmg

You can buy the daedalus if you are really that ahead and don't give two shits. But keep in mind that, after you kill all the heroes, you need to take down towers and win the game until their carries start getting online and start buying MKBs to wreck your face (oh and supports will buy ghost scepters unless they are retarded).

So instead of spending a ton of gold for a Daedalus which will certainly improve your damage by a ton, go for vlads/deso build so you can take down towers and have sustain on the map. Like, PA gets her damage from crit and attack speed from blink strike, but how does it work with buildings? It doesn't. So basically as far as attacking buildings goes, PA will have a typical support DPS against them and we aren't talking lvl 7 jakiro here. If you get some attack speed and desolator you can actually push towers and end the game before shit hits the fan (aka everyone gets ways to counter you. Malestrom is a cheap (but good( alternative to battlefury in this regard as it lets you push lanes more effectively, and deso will let you take down towers as well.

I have seen so many retards in 3k blaming their team for the loss, when they'd just played the "battlefury PA" going into lategame against spectres and medusas of the world. I mean, PA without diffusal (or satyr) is terrible even against an ethereal blade or ghost scepter carrier to begin with and people who have any brains will build against PA which is really easy to do if you can stop her momentum and farm up.

why daedalus ?
did yer ult got silenced or smthing ?
ROFL

If Daedalus is the best item available to you, you're probably better off growing a pair of balls and picking up a rapier.

Otherwise, you should probably be getting something to keep you alive/lock down the enemy.

DPS increase from your crit = 52.5%
DPS increase from crits when you have lvl 3 ult and daedalus = 83.1%.
Daedalus gives you about 20% more DPS(not taking the +81 damage into account), while it would give 36% more DPS to a hero without any other crit.
I guess it's ok when you think her crit is too random and unreliable.

It can be somewhat decent as a 6th item if the enemy team has no evasion hero or any butterfly carrier, solar crest or whatever, in that case mkb is always gonna be superior.

Using this build @ level 25

~ Neither Item ~
You deal 246dmg/hit @ 0.78s/atk for 315dps * 52.5% (ulti) = 480.4dps

~ Daedalus ~
327dmg/hit @ 0.78s/atk for 419.2dps * 84.17% (ulti + daedalus) = 772.0dps

~ Monkey King Bar ~
312dmg/hit @ 0.73s/atk for 427.4dps * 52.5% (ulti) = 651.785dps + (56/0.73)dps (mkb bonus bash dmg) = 728.5dps

Daedalus is only a marginal increase in DPS (~5-6%) but you don't get the true strike MKB gives, or the mini-bash which is the most important part. You can cancel channels (TPs) as well as interrupt spell casts and attacks (you might think this is marginal but it might be the difference in taking 1-2 less auto attacks from a carry dealing 300dmg/hit) and not to mention the bash stops movement temporarily so you can get an extra hit in someone who is running away.

MKB > Daedalus unless for some reason you really need 5-6% dps over ALL the utility that MKB gives you.

^how about Manta difu pa?