get gud
;)
I'm a lot lot lower than you in MMR so don't really feel like I can comment...maybe go back to playing with your friends for fun. It might not feel like it helps you improve but maybe its psychological and might help you play in a more relaxed way which helps your decision making.
I am at exactly the same mmr as you (on a smurf account) and I have been trying to improve as well, but I think it would be good to once in a while play with friends, ya know, for fun. you're prob not doing good because you are stressed the f*** out all the time.
Well, be encouraged your MMR puts you among the top 5% of players, so you really are way, way better at dota than most people you might know in real life... but be discouraged that's not even close to pro.
Only about 5% of people at your level of dota have some chance of ever becoming a pro player. Probably that's not you.
But spamming Tinker will not be the best route to improve your understanding of the game. Tinker play is so different from other heroes that its unhelpful to generally getting how dota games work. I recommend learning several other totally different heroes. Learn a hard support hero, learn a farming, late game, hard carry, learn a jungler with micro, learn an offlane initiating hero. Pick one of these at a time and practice them until you get over 50% winrate on each one. This WILL lower your MMR a lot while you start learning, but it will come back up as you improve and this will show you that you really are improving on the hero. When you have completed all this you will have a much better understanding of what your teammates are trying to accomplish and how to stop enemy heroes from doing what they are trying to do. Then you can go back to playing tinker or whatever you like and will be able to fulfill whatever potential you may have.
blog.dota2.com/2013/12/matchmaking/
95% are lower than 3.9k... so 3.7k is maybe 93-94% I guess.
90% are lower than 3.2k MMR.
If this is your main account and for such small amount of games you're actually doing good. Your winrate is really low tho, so you have been calibrated too high and you will drop in mmr. Just learn all heroes and their spells, watch some good players play on twitch and try to absorb as much as you can. You need certain amount of games to become better, 200 games is nothing.
Note that this distribution is from normal matchmaking. We don’t know yet what the distribution will be in ranked matchmaking, but we expect it to be different.
Note that this distribution is from normal matchmaking. We don’t know yet what the distribution will be in ranked matchmaking, but we expect it to be different.
Note that this distribution is from normal matchmaking. We don’t know yet what the distribution will be in ranked matchmaking, but we expect it to be different.
we expect it to be different
[size=40]different[/size]
You can choose to make decisions based on ignorance and personal opinion. I choose reality instead. Dotabuff's team MMR distribution from the time then showed ranked MMR was not different than unranked.
The system is massive with millions of individuals it is almost impossible for it to have changed much. Team MMRs no longer are a representative sample (only 6,000+ teams) but they were a representative sample at the time (160,000 + teams).
Valve did "expect" a difference, but they were wrong. Hence they have not published any new numbers to update the distribution. It has not changed. I did not expect it to change because I know that people like to play ranked games independent of their skill level. Valve thought maybe only better players would play ranked.
What Sano said also, that quote is from 12-2013, which was like 1.5 years ago so the values have skewed for sure by now.
No, that's like saying that a mountain was here a couple years ago so surely it has moved on and is gone now... You really don't seem to recognize how a system of data like this functions.
Well on 2k the matchmaking que is 1-2 minutes, on 3k is 3-5 minutes and 4k is 4-6 minutes, i think 2k where are the biggest amount of players.
"You can choose to make decisions based on ignorance and personal opinion."
Or maybe evidence??? Which you have none??? Or do you consider an OUTDATED distribution of UNRANKED matchmaking evidence?
"No, that's like saying that a mountain was here a couple years ago so surely it has moved on and is gone now... You really don't seem to recognize how a system of data like this functions."
Ok this is literally the worst argument I've seen here
i remember 1 year ago when i was 2kish i would hit search and get insta games, now i wait 4-10 minutes
Dont get emo when you play.. And observe the situation.. And pick your hero correctly..
i think it depends on whether you really want to learn (deep in your heart, kappa). if you do, you'll get better w/o problems just cz u get useful knowledge from every game of yours, no matter loss or win. otherwise, even using guides/vods/streams/coaches wont rly help you.
Do not believe the Dunning-Kruger elitists on the forum. Their personal lack of self-worth should have no power to convince anyone of their delusional world in which "anyone can get to 5k". I'm sorry you guys feel so bad about yourselves but you should not be allowed to drag others into your personal depression.
On the other hand the fact is pretty much everyone cannot get to 5k MMR - will never be able to do it. So don't expect it to be easy, or even possible for you even if you recognize that you are a very good player. And simply reaching 5k in solo pubs spamming your top hero is not likely to translate to joining a pro team. Now if you can play any hero and still win over 50% of games at 5k+ MMR THAT is the sort of player who might be able to play in pro games -> Someone who can RANDOM and win at over 5k MMR.
Instead have a balanced approach, realize that your MMR score is a realistic description of your performance over the last couple hundred games. Can you do much better? Probably not more than 1k MMR above whatever your current score - and only that by spamming a top hero. But is a top 1% score really a good score? I'm sure the 10s of millions of players who don't have a top 1% score think it is. Those who wanted another 1k MMR on top of that will think its bad... its just a matter of perspective.
^completely disagreed
YES, everyone can reach 5k. 6k as well. People may have physical limitations in shooters, not in MOBA games.
Talent in dota doesnt matter that much, although it counts, too. However, the most important factors are KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE. You get better by gaining more of these. You learn new stuff, know some details, skill interactions, etc. You practice, you become better. It works both at 1k and at 6k.
Yes, being in top 1% of the game is cool, but why should you give up trying to improve then? there are still thousands of people who managed to master their skill better than you did, so you know its possible to get better, and you are able to so it.
p.s By knowledge i mean practical knowledge. theoretical stuff like knowing the exact damage of lvl 2 scream of pain wont help you much if you are unable to apply it.
You completely changed the subject -- which is you have don't any evidence about the real MMR distribution yet keeps claiming that X mmr is at Y percentile
@hm
the distribution of mmr in ranked may be different to the old data for unranked, but if we count all players, it stayed more or less the same. the differences appear due to some people not going to ranked, or creating smurfs.
so lets say if you are 4200, you are still better than 99% of players, even though your mmr can have just a 95% quantile.
@Relentless
Dotabuff staff posted on here the breakdown percentages of normal/high/very high games, with very high taking up about 11% share.
We know from observation that very high starts at about 3700 ranked mmr.
Your numbers from an 18 month old post are not gospel. Perhaps someone will link the dotabuff staff dude's post, or you can trawl through and find it for yourself.
@Blink #Swegger
its not "about 11%", its strictly 10%, followed by 15% in High Skill and 75% in Normal skill.
I'd abandon your account honestly. You're winrate is horrible.
A problem you have is that you pick heroes for fun and not heroes that win games. NA Dota scene is shit anyway. After I finish school in U.S. I'm gonna move back to Stockholm before I start my professional career.
@TripleSteal- that's why i wrote "I feel like anyone would've been at least 4-5k if they were me.", i really want to improve and i do all the microish things to improve, but nothing really helps me...
@メメ learning one hero and spamming it.. i did it in beggining with tinker on this acc and i had like 70-80% winrate and i had 4k-ish teammates all the time(i got one chen spammer who invited me to his friendlist with like 4k~ something), until i thought that just playing one hero wont make me some sort of special/good player overall(which actually may be a mistake, so that's why i am here and i am asking for advices), i started playing other heroes, like shadow fiend and invoker, got into weaker skill bracket, 3k-ish players and since then i couldn't even win much with my tinkerino.
@DkPhobos i wont abandon it and i don't have anything common with NA Dota scene.
people who tend to post here and argue about things that don't help me out much - read the main subject of the topic and think when you post here. I want you to help me, instead of arguing and telling me what not to do. Just tell me what I HAVE TO DO, give me a good advice or whatever, anything that can help me, if you can... if you can't and you are only about saying something negative, then you're safe to leave this topic.
I mean what do you want to know, there's no secret
watch streams/vods/replays, play on a team, play exhaustively, read theorycraft
that's all
i do believe that if you master one hero and "spam" it to get to decent mmr (lets put 4k as decent), you can see how other decent players play other heroes thus getting a general idea how to play those other heroes, so it would be easier for you to learn how to play them
instead of endlessly playing 100+ heroes in the trench
It is quite true that there are far more games played in Very High than Very High players and this should be no surprise at all. The best players play vastly more than the typical, average players. But they are not better for simply playing more games. They play more games because they are better at dota and therefore enjoy playing much more.
There is absolutely no disagreement between Dotabuff's numbers and Valve's numbers. Games played does not equal players.
Triplesteal is absurdly far from reality....everyone cannot reach 6k MMR. It's not merely that everyone cannot reach a certain level of excellence achieved by current 6k players... although that is true by itself. Only a handful of players can reach 6k MMR because of what it means mathematically. To get there you must do more than merely improve, you must surpass the performance of all the 5k, then 5.5k, then 5.9k MMR players to reach 6k. You will have to improve more, faster, than everyone else in the world...it is not possible for everyone to be better than everyone... It is not possible for a number to be greater than itself. It is plainly idiotic to say that everyone and anyone can be the best in the world. That is nonsense, obviously gibberish... meaningless.
You are not even speaking a coherent thought to say so, much less advancing an argument.
Reality is that most people are limited to being average. Reality is that the vast majority cannot even achieve being among the top 10%. That is a simple and unalterable mathematical fact. You can choose to pretend to have a differing opinion, but its not even an opinion. Its just incoherent garbage sloshing around in your mind. Believing such inane concepts is a reason to seriously question your ability to think at all. And if you are truly THAT bad at reasoning... you might look to your education. I observed with extensive experience that a modern college degree is worth less than an 8th grade education was in 1800. Such is primarily the outcome of many decades, even centuries (depending on the state) of government run education. Most people today are brainwashed fools with nearly zero reasoning ability. But unlike the limitations to your skills in dota... that average man does not have to remain imbecilic because this is a product of the system, rather than natural talent. If you came up to the level of an 8th grader from the early 1800s...which average people can do, you would be quite intelligent and capable in life.
No, Relentless would be hard pressed to reach 4k MMR...though I have made it there once before. It was quite difficult.
dotabuff staff said "very high" (3.7k+) amounted to top 10% a few months ago, because approximately 10% of games from the API filter registered as "very high" (some games weren't registered at all, so it might even be like top 8 or 9% since the majority of non-registered games are not in "very high")
cba to find the link but it's somewhere on reddit
mmr values corresponding to distribution have definitely shifted upwards, there's no doubt about that
i'd estimate top 1% is probably somewhere around 4700, 5000 is probably like top 0.5% or something
lots of trashes are now low 5k so that's how you know it corresponds to something like 4400 when ranked came out
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2wjo81/725_of_all_games_are_in_normal_bracket_155_in/
ok i was slightly off, it's 11.9%, but if you factor in the games with no data registered on skill bracket, i think the figure is closer to 10% than 12% (cuz most of those matches are in the normal/high bracket)
Guys plz calm down a bit and evaluate each argument separately.
Relentless is mistaken on the subject of mmr distribution as I have provided evidence, and I'm certainly never going to be convinced 3k/4k is "good" by any stretch of my imagination (though "good" is a subjective term), but he is correct that people have physical and mental limitations, it's called hand-eye coordination/referred to as motor skills.
I have MANY friends who have been playing dota 1 + 2 for longer than I have (well, maybe not anymore cuz I've been fiending games for the past 1.5 years) and they are stuck somewhere between 3500-4500. I could offer them a year's worth of hot chicks and deluxe vacation packages worth $5000 if they could improve to 5k, and they would fail. 5k is simply beyond their capabilities, because their reaction time/how they perceive the game is way too slow.
When I play with them, I ask them to do certain things and they fail at it each time, and after a while I thought, "You know, maybe it has more to do with the fact that they're not capable of doing it, not because they're deliberately trying to game ruin/[insert other reason]."
Not to mention everyone has IRL friends who completely suck at video games, I'm not even good at shooters like Halo and I've won against casuals 95% of the time just by being quicker at reacting to situations and spamming the fire button. I have friends who literally struggle to do more than 2 things at once, and thinking "lol are these people retarded?" as opposed to "yea i just think they're not cut out for playing games" is naive and egotistic.
Furthermore, even if your shaky hypothesis ("all it takes is practice!") is correct, by the time the average mmr is 5k, the good pubstompers (currently 5k-6k) will be 7k-8k and the top tier players (6500+) will be 9k or even higher. MMR is a RELATIVE MEASUREMENT of how well you win games, not an ABSOLUTE. Anyone who understands how ELO works would know this.
Some people certainly have the potential to play at a level much higher than they currently are, and then there are people who have already peaked. Denying the latter is really foolish.
imo ur problem is that ur playing hard heroes that arent effective with ur current skill / bracket.
just play easier heroes who can snowball and improve with them instead of trying to play invoker and have zero impact...
Ignoring most of this as I don't feel like reading idiotic posts (relentless is right from what I've read, he generally is it seems)
Anyway I think your going about this wrong 1 tinker plays so very differently then most heroes...... I would suggest learning a hero moving on to the next...... Learn multiple roles ....... Learn heroes peoe dislike (like techies) they all have things to teach you in their specific mechanics
If you learn multiple heroes and roles you will be more flexible not just when drafting but when playing a certain hero.
Also above all have some fun dude relax abit no point in playing a GAME (as ultimately that's what this is regardless of ambitions of going pro) if your not having any fun with it
Maybe you just CANT hit the pro mark.... Harsh reality is not everyone can..... But maybe you can so until then just kick back and learn and above all have fun
Have fun friend see ya by the ancients
didnt read comments lol
but you say you practice, try to get better and watch pro players and gud people like me play
YET this is what i find
52 games with sf and 30% win with a total of 200 games and 42% win -> seems more like a smurf and YOU*RE FAR AWAY from your current mmr ->closer to 2mmr.
I also find this
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1503851592 -> LOOK AT YOUR CS, LOOK AT YOUR BUILD
compare it to me
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1499631515 -> my last sf game
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1499565189 -> next last sf game (this game i talk about)
Your builds are trash, you don't move fast, you don't hit fast, you don't farm fast but you can sustain yourself in jungle and jump around?? AND DO WHAT WITH YOUR DAGGER? -> jump into 1/2/3/4/5 targets and feed faster?
you farmed 140 creeps in 29 minutes and at that time had ~2,5 core items,
at that time i had 203 creeps and 3 core items, but they were all worth the double of yours so ~5!!
and i was not playing against bots like you, the zeus you see there fucking dualed lane me mid and stole every cs the first 3 min, i mostly could just deny and increase my soul count to zone out the enemy midder and not lose so much in comparison.
My advice, LEARN PROS AND CONS of the heroes you want to play and DO SOMETHING USEFUL when you're on a CORE POSITION! If you don't know --> CLEARLY WITH SF, play support instead and LEARN the game slowly but surely! You get more time to check the game, see the progress, weight different builds and their effectiveness and you also learn about weaknesses in different lineups! A support is supposed to do whatever the team needs, you need a sentry for free farm? you get it, mid needs safety to farm?, you hide behind tower or have a tp rdy and shit like that. PLAY SUPPORT ONLY because you're a trash player for you mmr and the first thing you need to do is learn dota at the level you're on! FORGET ABOUT CLIMBIMG, that comes naturally later, as you do what i said.
and you're not top 5%
not even top 10%
from your stats you're more like top 35-40% ---> really bad at dota
To emphasize my previous point, even if you forced every dota player to play 8 hours/day, 6 days/week for 5 years, you would still end up with a bell curve distribution of skill ratings, for various reasons.
I make fun of shitters in my games too for playing poorly and flame the fuck out of them, but if you were to be rational about it, there's no getting around the fact some people are simply better at certain tasks/activities than others. I suspect people denying this has a lot to do with the cultural, sophomoric memes about how "working hard" allows you to overcome certain barriers (which if you took the time to observe, isn't even remotely close to being accurate in the real world).
if that's the case then all the players who were previously 5k would be 7k, and all the 7k players would be 9k
it's going to remain a bell curve distribution no matter what, because that's how ELO works. specific individuals can move through the system, due to latent skill that is unrealized, but the population distribution itself won't fundamentally change.
"anyone can get 5k"
possibly, but certainly not "everyone"
that's a subtle distinction people keep confusing
it does apply now, because there are winners and losers in every game u play. in order for you to gain mmr, someone else has to lose. you only "add mmr" to the system through new accounts (and account selling...), which then pushes the top players even higher due to inflation/harvesting the MMR of lower skilled players. what you then accomplish is shifting the entire curve rightward and increasing the total population at each section, but it remains a curve
this isn't my "opinion," it's FACT. it's how ELO (which MMR is based off of) works, and it's why the population won't ever change, despite people continuing to insist otherwise.
as for individuals, i do think "below average" people can still get something like 3.5k/4k if they play enough/spend years practicing (lol, sounds harsh but not everyone has the same mental capabilities) but i have plenty of friends who have 1000+ ranked matches solo queuing and can't reach 5k. i can assure you, even though we are both well above 5k and frequently make fun of low 5k people for being egotistical shits, it isn't anywhere close to being easy for more than 99% of players.
is practice essential? absolutely. but saying there's no hard limit is just naive at best.
if people still insist "lol there's no such thing as talent," then prove it and get 7k mmr (done by at least 50 people worldwide already). you have 300 ranked games to achieve the target goal, so the "i don't have time" excuse flies out the window. good luck with that
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Yo~! I'm 17 years old and i'm playing dota 2 around one and a half year. I'm currently at 3,6-3,7k mmr, i mostly play mid. I really need help or some sort of advice...
I've been trying to improve at dota for few months and for that i've been using all the possible methods that came in my mind (as last hit practicing in lobbies, watching pro games, watching other players playing(player perspective), watching my own replays, trying to understand my own mistakes, trying different heroes, trying to spam one hero till i learn it, for invoker i've been using invokergamedotcom, as well etc.), but basically nothing has changed and nothing made me improve. It's actually other way around, i've even become worse than i was before trying to improve on my own and tryhard as much as possible.
Around half a year ago i was 3,8k mmr, when playing with my IRL friends(who were 2-3k) for fun, but i always felt that i could play dota way better than i did back then, and that's what i really wanted. I actually have a dream to become a pro one day and for that i stopped playing with my friends, instead i started playing solo queue non-stop, because everyone is saying that solo queue is the best for improving your own game. I even created a new profile, so friends dont bother me and the only thing i focus on is my improvement. I also thought that i'll maybe get a bit higher MMR.. I made many profiles, but then i understood its no use making thousands of them. So I made the last one, gave it my best shot and.. I calibrated at 3,7 with 3 wins and 7 losses.
Let's say it short, i've never been a fast learner, but i always try doing my best, and i always believe that i'll become best at something, for now i really want it to be dota and i have all chances to do so.. even my school programm - it allows me to study at home and play a lot. I feel like anyone would've been at least 4-5k if they were me. Every loss makes me feel sad, but when i try so hard and nothing comes out of it, i end up in tears...
Kind friend suggested me to write a topic about improving here and he said i should ask someone who's better than me to watch my replays, for example, and tell me what am i doing wrong. Basically all the stuff i wrote above is just tl;dr sort of thing and what i really want is someone to watch like one, two or maybe three last games and give me some advice, explain me why do i keep losing, what do i have to work on to become better and so on.