Battlefury -> Perse + Broadsword + claymore + quelling -> Cleave that scales with troll's right click, gives damage + mana regen + hp regen.
Radiance -> Sacred relic + recipe -> has set burn damage that falls off. Gives 17% blind aura.
Conclusion: You are bad at maths and decision making, ergo bad at the game.
I'll wait for someone to actually go through the post and engage with me based on logic and reason, and address the points I highlighted, before responding.
But I will say this - cleave dmg scaling with troll's dmg is true, but unlike PA or sven, troll isn't interested in cleaving the enemy team anyway, he will never have THAT much dmg per hit. That concept is only relevant against illusion heroes like PL and naga, which I accounted for in my original post. Against those heroes, you obviously make battlefury, no question about it
if u knew any thing about logic and reason u wouldnt end up being legend 1 on literally ape server
anybody who has a brain wouldnt even bother himself argue you
you are literally like a 3rd grade kid learning basic math yesterday and now theory crafting about calculus. you are just making a fool of yourself if u wanna pretend u are not a fool in first place.
oh btw just read ur profile comments + your amazing diffu into pipe ( :))))))))))))))closed brackets from here to the jungle u live) pl build
you are just retarded, plz write more essays about dota clown :)))
Then why tf does top immortal players still go battlefury using troll against magic type enemy heroes instead of buying radiance.
You said people in archon - legend are stupid and you have 7k matches but is still in legend bracket which makes you a giga trash player
Topson has gone radiance on mid troll situationally- not sure if he's played any troll recently, but when the aghs was changed to the dispel he was building it rather frequently.
Refer to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk333Ghufmc
I think in your bracket however you'd do best just overfarming with a bfury and killing everyone because you're 10k networth ahead.
well once zai started the axe shard meta i started playing it that way, but i suck at farming as the offlane and i always get flamed for being slow and bad
ok, I'm not gonna bother explaining Dota 101 to you.
Go ahead, play 50 games with troll make radiance, share your results.
Analyze what made your game hard/easy, then read your own post and then realize how stupid you sound.
people in archon-legend is stupid, and here u are after 7k matches being barely legend 1, called stupid by urself ez
@OP don't listen to these forum nerd who only copy pro's build like a sheep. If you win with it it's viable. JUST DO IT
i didnt read but radiance is very good vs pl or illus
maybe if u have a good lane and dont need to buy perse or claymore stat items go for it
yes if u winning with it do it until it doesnt work
actually you can still buy ring of health and keep it until you finish radi and make hod/shroud with it,it could work lol
Pfft can't believe you all just roast his ass instead of saying something useful, if he's wrong then what's the point of discussions being always right and guiding you?
^^
Well there's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't even understand the most basic stuff.
Comparing the cost/effectiveness/buildup with the power spike and how it synergizes with the hero is too hard for OP.
im playing with a braindead pos 1 picking ls and buys oov agaisnt 2 range hoeres weaver + sky
he has no rage lvl 2 he skills 3rd skill in a lane he can never hit enemy heroes
and u want me havea nice discussion about dota with a fuckign legend aniaml when 6ks are fuckign braindeads
cool stuff im gonna do that for free
i care a lot about u animals
In kowa's world the only smart man is him and everyone around him are braindead animals.
Troll has one of the worst Int gains in the game (if not the worst), I am not 100% sure on this any more. But it is bad, no matter how you slice and dice it. His skills have some serious mana costs on them... The BF build has that nice Mana Regen on it, that helps practically all the way to keep you going in a fight or in the jungle. The damage is comparable to Radiance. Also, the BF build up is way more easier and has a nicer ramp to it, than trying to save that 4k gold for a single item with just Phase Boots... BF for Troll is quite similar to Ursa as well. They need the mana regen to keep on trucking along and practically none of the other sane item choices for these heroes have any mana regen on them... This is why Battlefury is better than Radiance on these heroes with low mana pools and multiple castable skills. Popping a clarity in a team fight is certainly not an option at all and you are not going to be building any int items or you are going to be losing. So BF takes care of a lot of the deficiencies for Troll (Ursa) and has a nice build up (with relatively easy to get parts that help your farming speed) and the end product will increase your gold intake so you can get faster to the next item. This is why you go Battlefury and not Radiance.
WK mana pool is a lot better than on Troll and that Aghs Shard for WK is a real life saver, quite literally, so you dont have to worry about the ult mana cost any more after it. And WK has those skeletons that do some serious work, so you don't even have to be in the jungle to farm a good chunk of the jungle as a WK. It is a little different. What is different as well, that as the WK, you basically want to see the enemy team waste a good chunk of their team fight on your first life and then go ham with the second life. This is not an option for Troll or Ursa... Unless you do Rosh first.
dats actually right wk has skeles to fast farm
i never have mana issues as troll tho and i never buy fury
Treadswitching + either a basi or some clarities mean that you'll never really run out of mana. Once you hit an aghs timing, you'll definitely have 0 mana issues for the rest of the game. Battlefury has also been nerfed since last patch, so my go-to farming item would be a maelstrom. Sadly troll is not super good this patch, and as such I have not really been picking him. For the record as well, ursa does not go battlefury any more, and instead goes for a more tempo morbid--> diffu--> sny/satanic build.
^ Well, I'd always prefer a tempo build troll over a bf troll.
But, if given option between radiance and bf, I'd much prefer my troll get a bf.
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Ok, so hear me out, since in some (few) games, I build radiance on troll, and despite being successful with it, I've gotten flamed for it. To the point where once a team mate said 'report troll he didn't make battefury, he has no damage' to which I pointed out that radiance having 60 damage has even more damage than battlefury, not even counting burn damage. Obviously, people in the archon-legend bracket are stupid.
I make battlefury on troll in almost 100% of games when I have an enemy natures prophet, and I also make it in some games where I really really need ring of health and/or void stone in lane (usually I don't. Troll is a fucking strong laner). But in total, these games are few. Usually, after wraith band, magic wand and phase boots, I just rush diffusal or maelstrom, or in some games I rush sange and yasha (or manta if I need the dispel). In some rare games, I make radiance first. If dealing with a PL or naga on enemy team, battlefury is better, but good luck going late game against those heroes even with that.
Back to why radiance can be a better alternative to battlefury on troll (in games not involving enemy natures prophet or illusion heroes).
Well, first of all, I'm not a big fan of battlefury OR radiance on troll anyway. If you want to make a farming item on troll (which you really don't - maxed whirling axes combined with frequent clarities really makes farming items redundant on troll), maelstrom is the ideal item for troll. Troll has the best attack speed abilities in the game, which synergize perfectly with maelstrom's lightning procs. So you get an item that quenches your desire for farming, but helps you immensely in dealing dmg to enemies as well, and all for about half the price of a battlefury.
I made radiance on troll usually in games where I'm going a tanky, anti-disable build, and usually when I'm going aghs. For example, in one match, enemy picked necrophos and a bunch of magic spell casters. I know enemy will be making ghost scepters, and they have a shit ton of disables. So what am I going to do as troll? I'm not going to jump into a team fight hoping to right click them to death, which is what traditionally a troll would have tried to do. It's true that I could go the bkb and nullifier route, but that's a one-shot, risky trick and if the enemy has some brain, they are going to kite my bkb duration. So instead, I make radiance, aghs and sange and yasha. Why? The concept is similar to radiance wraith king. You go in the team fight with tanky items, do the max damage that you can while you are disabled (But still surviving, which is the key difference here, unlike wraith king, you can't afford to die here, so you only go in knowing that you won't die, or you back out if shit is getting real, and then when you are low hp, and you have made sure that you've soaked up most of the enemy's disables, you press R and you become immortal while dealing damage. Most probably enemy, would have saved a disable for this too. But your ult duration should last long enough to get through one more disable and then start lifestealing up. What's important here is that this is a team fight, not a solo encounter - i.e. while you are wasting so much enemy time and soaking up so much disable from the enemy, you've wasted all of the enemy's resources, by pressing R towards the end, you along with your team will counter initiate and turn the fight around. And this will work because you made tanky/status resist items on troll - sange and yasha, skadi etc. (man I miss old status resist satanic). And the radiance will help you BECAUSE YOU CAN'T RIGHT CLICK WHILE DISABLED. Again, essentially, the concept is like two lives wraith king - your first 'life' is pre-ult, and your second 'life' is post-ult. And of course, radiance blind synergizes well with whirling axes blind (and the talent blind if you want to take it - I usually don't take it because by the time I'm level 20 I'm already transitioning to late game right clicker build)
Now of course, this situation isn't really a good situation for troll. Ideally, as troll, you want blink, damage, abyssal and bkb, so that you can just blink in and remove their core from existence in the blink of an eye. And make no mistake, this is still your goal for late game. So even with this tanky, wraith king like build, your goal is still to reach that state where you can blink in and murder their cores with impunity, but trust me, in games where enemy has mass disablers and spell casters, your number one friend is COUNTER INITIATION and the ability to survive that initial burst when they target you, both things which this build gives you. Once you've turned the tides in a bunch of team fights, you can reach that state where farming abyssal, blink and mkb/daedulus won't be that far off.
Now to address this whole battlefury but not radiance business. My question is why? Battlefury is a sub par item on troll. You only make it situationally. So is radiance. But just because the trend is to make battlefury and not radiance you will overlook the obvious benefits that radiance has over battlefury in some situations? The constant burn damage even while disabled, the ability to cancel their blinks when chasing and when disabled, the blind synergizing well with whirling axes blind, especially if you've made aghs and will be spamming whirling axes, etc. And, not counting games where enemy has illusion heroes, radiance gives more damage per hit because of higher damage on the item! So it's actually superior to bf in terms of damage in these games.
What are your thoughts? Again, just to reiterate/TLDR, I'm not a fan of farming items on troll anyway. I'd much rather go diffusal, sange and yasha, basher into mkb and blink bkb rather than make battlefury or radiance first. But in some situations, radiance can be a really good item on troll, synergizing well with an aghs, tanky, status-resist build and with his ult, while battlefury only makes sense in the few games that enemy picks natures prophet or PL/naga.
Edit: I forgot to add that bkb is also needed in this build, but not your first priority since you'd go the farming and status resist item/aghs (if you need it) first. So the build would be:
wraith band -> magic wand -> phase boots/treads -> radiance -> sange and yasha and/or aghs (aghs situational) -> bkb -> basher -> mkb/blink/abyssal/sakdi, etc.