General DiscussionSF mid vs Viper

you can't beat viper in lane, best thing you can do is push the wave with raze
then farm jungle, rinse repeat. Just outfarm viper

outplay her on the lane, or just outfarm her right after the laning stage which is pretty ez with sf

If he dont harass you at lvl 1 you have a chance to win the lane easy.But if he knows what he is doing you will have trouble the first levels.It all depends on the players.

not really that hard......after a few souls and lvl 5 the lane is yours.........double wave him then go get some neutrals or a rune.....you probably wont kill him tho unless he misplays greatly/u get a haste or a dd

Sf can win the lane if the first wave is not a mess for him.
He literally can get everything he want by lvl 3.

Basically (considering viper and sf have the same skill) if players are not very good, viper will always win. but if players are (very) good, viper will suffer a lot from raze, without being able to retaliate.

That's one of the matchup which goes from hell to fine for sf, when skill grows. (so for 4k, yeah viper always win)

Ta beats viper

But still viper is tanky and very hard to gank on early phase

He got lvl 1 Q, then proceeded to just completely push me out of lane. Stood on my side of the river, forced me away. Then, when wave pushed in, he dove me through tier 2 and killed me. I was still lvl 1, I couldn't even raze to fight back.
Though analyzing it, I understand when people say it shouldn't be as much of a ROFLstomp as it was for me. I could've done better. My mistake, simply put it, was not bringing regen to the lane. I started wraith band, fire, branch, 1 shared tango.

the only hero that wins mid without any regen is bloodseeker

Viper has an advantage it's not as big as vs TA tho

Get a bunch of salve

as a viper player it's usually around level 3 where the lane gets decided. Thats when i usually have 2 points in nethertoxin and im looking for a kill, if I can kill you or force you out of lane at level three then the lane is pretty much mine and there's not a whole lot you can do about it, especially with a squishy hero like sf. If i cant get a kill and just run at you then you now have the advantage because you can force out the lane while i can't. Now i can't push the tower becuase the waves are constantly being pushed in and i can't kill you because your not in lane long enough. You trade farm but sf scales better and viper doesn't have any mid kills to snowball off of. You win the matchup because your hero is more effective with the farm that it gets. (though I will argue against anyone that says viper is horrible past thirty minutes).

at lvl 3, sf is much stronger than viper

@RPQ invoker prioritising quas can too
so can timber

in regards to sf vs viper, i'd say if the player is smart enough to manually cast q from lvl 1 to not trigger aggro wins

a lot of it also depends on the amount of souls the sf has. an SF with max souls level 3 is hard for viper to deal with, an SF with 5 souls, not so much.