General Discussion[Q]AM late game item choices

at some point I paniked and just did't know what to do or buy.

How the fuck do you panic L0L like OMFG WHAT DO I BUY OMFG?? SHOULD I GET GHOST SCEPTRE OR OCTARINE CORE??? OMFG WHAT DO I DO!!!

" at some point I paniked and just did't know what to do or buy.

How the fuck do you panic L0L like OMFG WHAT DO I BUY OMFG?? SHOULD I GET GHOST SCEPTRE OR OCTARINE CORE??? OMFG WHAT DO I DO!!! "

Something like that , morph and spirit were pushing and the other heroes mising from the map...I had plenty of gold and dint know what to do next
..change some items or keep farming..trying again to push and die.

Hanter I thought you mellowed down already rofl

The most obvious mistake was 2 butterflies instead of a bkb, even a heart would've been better. I would assume that PA already bought a mkb by the time you were finishing your second butterfly.

@ potaro marshal - thats a good point with the heart, the only reason I try not to build heart, because I read at some point om dota buff people saying that on AM is better to build But because you get stats + atack speed and evasion and armor is better than raw HP. I will consider heart next game. Ty

Replace your boots & scepter with Assault Cuiras & Heart Of Tarrasque

What you need to understand about AM is
-AM sucks at lategame. Due to his flash farming ability he can farm really fast and get 2 items ahead of the enemy cores, but He's just a creep with a blink if everyone else is also full item. I'm sure you noticed how useless you were in the end seeing you even had a cheese. Game should end within 40 minutes (unless you're enjoying the game too much to let it drag on). you had a good net worth lead there too.
-Split pushing is a VERY hard thing to master. Anyone can push a lane when theres a fight going on and possibly take towers. but the difference between all AM players and a Great one is about predicting a fight before it happens and push before. it requires great map awareness and game knowledge.
If you're doing it right, enemy will notice you pushing and getting close to towers before the fight starts (but after they have almost gathered someplace else), and will consider TPing to stop you, or to use the chance to 4v5. sometimes supports TP in while the cores try to fight, which is even better because now the fight is 4v4 and a 1v1 which is you against a support, while you're also pushing.

your item progression was okay but you could've ended at 40 mins with that lead if you had a BKB and threatened HG. I never like HOT on AM -.-

you needed bkb and mkb, not 2nd bfly

AM is by no means bad when the lategame kicks in, he's really good against some heroes that are considered harder/different carries (he can wreck spectre, naga and morphling, not to mention medusa), and his mobility is second to none for a carry. He's also really good against most melees by the virtue of being able to kite them with blinks, while still being a manfighting hero and having the ability to commit or not commit as much as he wants. Since the addition of talents, he's even better. People who say AM will peak and then be weak have no idea how the game works right now, it isn't about harder and weaker carries, it's about who counters what, and if you pick AM into a lineup that can hold their ground in the early game, and against a lineup that is really bad at fighting AM, you just win if you don't get rekt in the early game. AM doesn't fall off against heroes that don't counter him in any way, so it's all about picking him at the right time.

Every hero counters some other hero so according to your logic every hero is good in very lategame??(!!?)
And AM beats Spectre? wut?

Apparently, you lack reading comprehension. No, but it depends on the picks, and in what way exactly the heroes scale in the first place, but AM will outcarry most heroes by sheer mobility and map presence, and you should never forget how devastating a lategame mana void can be if AM is picked right (that is, against high manapool heroes).

AM will have a shit lategame if he is against an enigma who knows what he's doing, even if the carries on the enemy team are all "weaker" carries than him.

Sven vs AM is a pretty Sven-favored as long as Sven can burst him down, but at the point where he can't, AM wins. Also AM+magnus will outcarry Sven almost every game where Sven doesn't get too massive of a lead and doesn't have comparable teamfight.

I am just saying that blanket statements like "AM is a creep with blink lategame" are retarded since it absolutely depends on circumstances, there are games where he's a blinking creep all game long, like when he plays against bloodseeker who gets a shadowblade and hunts him so he gets battlefury 35 minutes in when his throne is exposed.

And AM beats Spectre? wut?

Also spectre is actually pretty crippled by mana burn. You can burn a fuckton of her mana if you jump her with abyssal and manta and the +25 agi talent, while having a butterfly. Spectre will be better at teamfighting lategame but AM straight up wins if he jumps her and then decides whether to continue fighting or not. IF both spectre and AM are equipped with abyssals, AM will still win because he has the ability to initiate and re-engage on low cooldown, and has an insane BAT that helps him bash spectre's head in.

Apparently, you lack writing comprehension (is that a thing?)
You were trying to prove AM has good lategame. and you mention AM being the counter to heroes like Medusa, which somehow should prove AM is good lategame?

Not to mention
"it isn't about harder and weaker carries, it's about who counters what, and if you pick AM into a lineup that can hold their ground in the early game, and against a lineup that is really bad at fighting AM, you just win if you don't get rekt in the early game"
What does that have to do with AM being good lategame? How is that related?

"AM doesn't fall off against heroes that don't counter him in any way"
non of AM's abilities scale that well into lategame. his passive isn't that handy in lategame since lategame is mostly physical fights(all it takes is a SB too). his mana burn hardly matters, his void could be good only if you can go through the linkens and the BKBs and the lockdowns.

I'm not going to argue with someone who can't understand what "weak/strong lategame" means and somehow makes it all about "counters"
He's clearly shit compared to most other fully itemized heroes. If you let the game drag that long you'll most likely lose.

Edit:
About your silly comparison, A hero beating a hero 1v1 doesn't mean being a better lategame hero. if it did Ursa would probably be the toughest carry of all.

What does that have to do with AM being good lategame? How is that related?

I am just saying that blanket statements like "AM is a creep with blink lategame" are retarded since it absolutely depends on circumstances

I said THIS, because this is what you said:

He's just a creep with a blink if everyone else is also full item.

And it's absolutely wrong. He's creep with a blink if everyone else is also full item? Are you retarded? AM can kill a 6 slotted morphling, medusa, naga, TA, Spectre, Storm and a lot of the hardest carries. He will have problems vs heroes like Void, especially if coupled by ranged carries, and there are lots of other heroes that he just doesn't do anything against, no matter which point in the game it is. Heroes like Bara make his splitpushing hell, because bara + 1 core with lockdown can usually kill an antimage that has a net worth lead in the midgame.

Am'll still split push faster and safer than most carries, not depend on long CDs (so his buyback is useful, unlike Sven's), and there are many other factors that play into him being good lategame.

You're absolutely wrong because you are using blanket statements, while I am saying that it really depends on circumstances with AM, which is demonstrably correct, and I have explained this as well.

It'd be the same blanket statement to say that AM is strong in the midgame with his superior items, when a much lower net worth blood seeker coupled with a ranged carry can absolutely wreck him. That's why the draft is important.

TL;DR: 6 slotted AM doesn't fall off against other 6 slotted heroes, if the heroes in question are bad against AM or do not have any natural ability/efficient build to fight him. In a lot of cases, he even SCALES with items and levels the enemy has (like OD and storm getting a huge mana pool and then blowing their whole team up). Heroes really have no real innate strength if you completely disregard drafts because a counterdraft can make any strength obsolete. Heroes do not exist in a vacuum, they are picked in a game with 9 other heroes.

Now this is a thread worth reading

Bring out the popcorn guys, it's a 3.7k shit player arguing with a 2.0k shit player.

@RPQ-sama:
your reasoning is based upon what heroes do well/badly against AM like your argument about AM being able to solo kill many heroes,
That's not how lategame works.

I can link you some of my own games where in teamfights I couldn't land attacks more than 3 seconds before they burst me down to nothing, but I'm at a shit bracket and nothing is logical so here's one from last TI

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3356083896
non of the heroes there can counter AM. I would even say the matchup is one of those "AM game"s with hardly any lockdown. the entire team created space for him, and at one point he was near 1k GPM through the game. they even got all the raxes and had mega creeps but lost due to AM being literally most useless piece of hero among all 10.
guess who did the most BLD damage? NOT AM
guess who did the most DMG? NOT AM
guess who was useless as shit in the fights, dying before he could even blink out? (just download the game and watch only the last 10-15 mins through high speed mode to see how shit AM lategame is).

It just prove that mid > safelane empire mid is badly lose against Ig invo

And am is sh1t Hero if u can fast farm as sven

I mean you are a bit retarded if you look at that Empire game and just conclude AM's garbage lategame. If you look at the heroes in that game, everything on dire scales incredibly well into lategame (they even have a 4 pos weaver, so they basically have an extra core come 60+ minutes). Meanwhile for radiant the only super strong scaling hero is AM and ofc he can't outcarry vs invoker/drow/nyx/weaver who all scale very well.

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1082719706

Quite an old game but it shows how strong AM can be even past 60+ minutes. I have a few of my own games as well.

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3136280352 - vs alche/timber/mk/ursa
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3255472977 - vs voker/weaver/mag
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2687284739 - vs tinker/morph

AM is decent lategame if picked properly
But generally you do actually want to end at min 40-45

And AM beats Spectre? wut?

Man why every time I wanna play spec someone picks am. Fuck that hero

^ that am needed a tide hunter ravage on his team to take that late , the enemy team had ridiculous amount of saves on it . At that late in the game vs a line up that was playing like that I can't really think of a carry that would close it out with the team that am had there . Maybe something cheesy like a triple rapier crit kunka cleaving off a creep or something .

Edit : I guess my page didn't refresh soon enough and peoOle already replied to it lol.

Meh , atleast for spectre , jugger and slark are not as strong as hey used to be , I think spark and jugg do better vs spec than a am does .

Y'all like skadi or heart on am as 6th slot or something else ? So far I've had better results from the skadi . I guess some games ac could be ok but I haven't built it on him yet .