General DiscussionMaxing bash on Void first

i thought max timewalk first was default and accepted

If you play against mana drainers, max bash should be acceptable

u just keep punching ur enemies

only reason u would do that is because ur going vs a lane that cant harass you. so you only need time walk sparingly. but more than likely its lane losing

you farm faster and when you gank other lanes with chrono you have higher %success

yeah but theres a huge downside for that. you cant go max bash first every game

i play like a complete scared person and only go to the offlane creep wave when its 1v1 or 2v1, there is typically almost 0 risk of me dying unless they gank my jungle or dive me standing 800 units behind my t1

and if you dive a void lvl 5 with pms and raindrop ur going to die

i go max bash every game and ive never felt like i lost because i didnt have max jump. you just have to be aware that when you go in ur jump is going to be cd and position accordingly

void hits lvl 9 very fast unless you have a horrendous game (die in lane when they gank large camp, try to gank with lvl 6 and fail + die type stuff)

so you prefer jungling over staying in lane, ok
i guess i ll need to watch some of your void games to understand it, for me so far on 4,5k i can just stay in lane easily most of the time, so i never really had that scenario

5ks will gtfo out of lane as supports in the first couple minutes if i dont show, but they will never gank me (brain dead), so it creates a 1v1 eventually almost always

or if they do they block the camp and i unblock it and go farm normal jungle for a bit

okay, wow
that's a very different approach to the laning stage then. i can see why you max bash first, since you dont stay in lane anyways
thanks for clearing that up

this replay shuold still work https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2761581931

i dont remember the game very well but fr omthe stats it looks standard

i usually have to fly out extra tangos and headress, plus i purchase PMS talon very early. once i hit treads thats basically my "early core" i farm resonably fast and can guarantee picks on mid/offlane usually by buying smokes, often i get godlike support players that will tp to my lane and coordinate a kill on their carry

i m gonna try your approach to the laning phase
cant download the replay though, so i guess i ll need to wait until you play your next void game, lul

ill queue one after about prob 2 pm today and probably lose from being rusty af xd

protip dont buy QB + rop for talon then accidentally assemble tranquils buying a ring of regen from sideshop like i did in a ranked game a month ago

its vital you block the first wave so the range creep runs very far ahead and dies first, its about 50/50 a 5k enemy support will block the creep and save it but in ur games they never will

always i either start wth PMS tango, talon tango, or stout double tango slipper/qb

alright nice!
never did the qb + rop
i know about blocking, but the enemy supports block my block about 75% of the time, so its common knowledge on eu lul

actually i have to go to the dmv i think so it might be a couple hours later xd

you are in no hurry, i can only check it tomorrow

Max bash as safe laner
Time walk as offlaner

your timewalk is your backtrack to heal the damage back.

yeah sure you can max bash "time dilation is useless".

It's good when you are the carry or you are going 1v1.

well, time dilation is not the great it was right now.. by lvl 5 u should be 2-0-3 or 3-0-2.. not much different each other

5/11.2/20/31! magic damage per hit on avg, even ignoring the huge increase of manfight/chase

i think theres a pretty big difference between 4 0 2 1 and 2 0 4 1 in terms of survivability and mobility vs farming and killing speed

ok heres ur game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2793189069

pretty standard game

minor things :

- my team had a shitton of damage and their heroes were squishy w/ high burst, so i didnt really get much time to hit people

- i played kinda shitty imo? idk i won

- the dazzle scouted out my obs and bodyblocked my first creep spawn, luckily i still managed to fuck lane eq (ty jugg)

- i got carried by meepo xd

its pretty typical though, i have 0 deaths until i run in on agi treads and feed like a retard at 30 mins

also i first picked it

It's situational, if you are versus antimage on lane and u need to exchange right clicks, u max bash, cuz u wont have mana for timewalk either way

Its only good in a 1v1 or 2v1 where you get a free lane

Otherwise, first ability is way better

Well I maxed Bash first for the first time yesterday in a 1v1 lane. It kinda worked although I misplayed here and there. Still need to watch JDF8s approach to the laning stage, but it seems reasonable in free lanes, although I am not convinced yet that it is the way to go the majority of games

i made a couple questionable ults, and maybe sacced the 2v1 lane a little harder than i had to + i think this is the lowest HD ive ever had on void (i played even more scared than usual because im a bit rusty). still, if i had gotten a bash at some points i wouldve solo killed the jug. i got what i needed out of the lane at least

ts about 50/50 a 5k enemy support will block the creep and save it but in ur games they never will

if they have a trilane that you dont wanna fuck with at all you cant go fuck with creep aggro unless u r ok with dying, especially since my response to a kill lane is rushing talon min 0