idk what these rosh changes are but it seems rather hard killing rosh with ta now
I believe this was to end the meta of people deathballing and ending too early. We saw this done frequently in pubs with cheese strats (pug+necro+wd) or simply Invokers+Beastmasters/Svens securing a rax by 20 minutes.
Idk though, the pro scene was balanced rather well and I feel Roshan was overnerfed and towers overbuffed.
Thought I won't be able to solo it with meepo since he has 1khp+ more after 10th minute, but you can still do it.
+there's that 300 gold item that removes 2 armor, so it helps a bit.
Thanks for placing it in this light. It'd be interesting to see what discussions come out of this thread. So games can end really early with the right heroes or get pushed into late game because of additional turtling capabilities?
@Xan, +4 base damage bae
@Pilot, that depends on more factors, patch brought a lot more than this, but I personally predict longer games.
@Xan, mostly heroes who use summons to kill him will have harder time. RIP Lycan Roshan sneak.
Summons should insta disappear in the pit like illusions do when they attack.
Fuck all those heroes.
6.88 - Meepo clones are treated as illusions by Roshan. Ayyyy
Seru ti po heroju 20 peceva za redom.
i dont get why illusions arnt allowed to rosh, its not like a pl or am would rosh really quick with manta or their illus
i guess chaos knight? but thats like a dp using her ulti to rosh, theres nothing exactly wrong with it
The rosh changes have apparently led to ursa losing something like 7% loss in winrate. It's a pretty fucking massive nerf to the hero.
When you consider that spectre's nerfs have only lowered her winrate by like 2%...it actually shows what a complete joke Icefrog and Valve are in terms of balance.
Is it possible for Crystal Maiden and Jakiro to kill Roshan with their ultimates (with Aghanims)?
@Soultrap, not a chance. CM level 16 FF would deal 2700 damage and THD Macropyre would deal around 3000. That's not enough for minute 0 Roshan. And by the time they get Aghs and lvl 16 Roshan will have 11k+ HP.
I think the carry meta will come back with am dusa sven or luna
Every team will have a fast farming carry that maybe can rat the t2 near rosh
With having a 18k networth hero at like 20+ mins you can take rosh and win
All in all I think games will take way more time with less kills then In 6.86
i would fefinitely hate the farming meta to rise once more.
nice buffs to towers though, but the rosh nerf was a bit too much i think. my go to winning heroes were always ta and ursa, and their ability to solo rosh had something to do with their success.
I think the idea behind this change is that you now only kill rosh if you need an Aegis to push with, not so that you can get a bunch of easy XP. It was kinda unbalanced that some heroes could get 2 free levels and an extra life 10 minutes into the game. Also since rosh is tankier it makes it easier for the other team to contest it and thus makes roshing riskier.
I don't think the armor thing is a huge deal, it only affects a couple heroes like lycan, lone druid and enigma mostly and I guess shadow shaman ult'ing rosh but I don't know if many people could solo rosh with him before anyway. It probably kills enigma solos though straight out and definitely hurts lycan and ld. But none of those heroes go for super early roshes usually, as it's difficult and higher risk than an ursa who was almost automatic.
XP definitely kills off momentum early rosh kills but I kind of think this is good. Dire side seems to have a big advantage in pro play, maybe it'll be more even now. For pubs it's kind of irrelevant other than a major nerf to ursa. Pubs don't rosh at right times and the aegis is more of an advantage than the xp usually to go win the next team fight or push high ground.
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I'll skip the MR change since it's not that relevant. HP increase and XP bounty are really interesting
First column is game time, second is HP for 6.86/6.87, third is XP for 6.86/6.87
XP nerf seems massive, now it takes 52 minutes for Roshan to reach XP bounty of 6.86. This affects heroes who can solo Roshan early on, notably Ursa, Lycan, TA, Invoker, as well as play style of taking Roshan early followed by a push which was seen at ESL Frankfurt and Manila. NP, BM, Venge, Voker, Ench, WD, OD were among ten most picked heroes at both tournaments. All of them are useful in bringing Roshan down and grouping up to push or split pushing on their own.
Killing Roshan will add less momentum now. Especially for heroes who can solo kill him early, who would get ~2 levels for it in 6.86. In 6.87 Rosh will grant ~1 level for solo kill. Slaying Roshan in groups will provide around a creep wave worth of XP per hero, depending on the size of the group. Ofcourse, total team XP is the same regardless of number of heroes in XP range.
Now another part of 6.87 comes into play:
In 6.86 Roshan had Strong armor. Properties of this armor type were increased damage of Basic attack damage type (used by Spirit Bear, Lycan Wolf, Treant, Eidolon, Necronomicon Warrior, and some other units) and reduced damage from Pierce attack damge type (used by Boar, Mass Serpent Ward, Plague Ward, Necronomicon Archer, etc.) Damage multiplier of Strong armor versus Basic damage was 1.25, and versus Pierce 0.75.
In 6.87 Roshan has Hero armor type. Properties of Hero armor are reduced damage from Basic and Pierce attack damage types. Damage multipliers of Hero armor versus Basic and Pierce damage are 0.75 and 0.5 respectively.
This results in 6.87 Roshan taking 40% less damage from Basic attack damage type and 33% less damage from Pierce attack damage type.
Combine this with increased HP and Roshan suddenly becomes much harder to kill for certain heroes. Factor in the reduced XP bounty and proportion of risk to reward gaps even more. Note that killing Roshan still gives significant lead due to reliable gold and Aegis mostly, as well as denying those advantages to the enemy team.
What effects will this have on Dota world?
On pubs I have no idea, haven't played in a while. So you can tell me. :)
On professional scene, huh, hard to tell what will be in the meta, but keep in mind two more changes:
This clearly adds to the advantage of defenders. Meaning turtleing becomes much more viable, especially with Roshan nerfs. Will all of this have an impact on "farm for a while, group up, Roshan, towers as 4/5, 5 men end" meta or not? Will games go longer? Will ricing return? I know there is much more to change log than stated above, but I can't think about everything, so I hope you folks factor in other changes and your experience with the patch so far, and maybe we can figure something out.
Please keep it serious. If you wanna ask why I wrote this, well I was bored.