General DiscussionWhy does IceFrog keep nerfing abyssal as a damage item?

vanguard carries will love it though

specter vanguard (cuz drums nw suck) into late game abys is gd

yeah, its a little OP on already stout damage dealers, and im pretty sure the old recipe built from sacred relic, but now it is vanguard so it works just fine considering now it is just a rework rather than a nerf, and if you are looking for dmg just go a different build.

but overwhelm cooldown and mana cost were extremely changed for the better, almost halfed cd, as well as half mana cost, so its somewhat balanced imo.

not really, you get a vanguard with bash. bkb piercing stun and +10str +10dmg for 6.4k gold. Kinda shitty if u ask me.

i think it is generally good for dota as a team-game that damage and disables are kept separate. you should have to make itemisation decisions.

I loved abbyssal on jugg and slark I think will not be building it as much now . I guess it's still fine on am tho right ?

Because low skill pubs use it only for damage and the bash. Not for the stun

Just few weeks ago i asked one of my friends why hes never upgrading his basher into Abyssal. He just told me He doesnt like active Item and cant handle 2 of Them( He also had diffu). So He rather keept 10 k Gold in inventory than buying Abyssal. #true1kstorys

Cus honestly it's borderline op in old form, it gives physical carries huge dmg and bash plus the active. It's op on heroes like slark, jug, spectre. They might still get it and be op with vanguard block (played vs a slark with it and he was fucking tanky) but at least you can't just build it for dmg now. A ranged hero will never get it, not that they got old one a ton either.

^I still feel it's a bit expensive. You pay 1550g for an increased block (8 more block, total crap), 7 more hp regen (can be sort of useful if you don't get lifesteal only) and for the active ability. TBH, 1550g for a bkb piercing ability for 2s considering it's cast range is too much, 550g? Ok, that would be fair.

The abyssal change is great, now every am from my team is going vang first instead of the 500 hp min 30 bf yasha vlads brown boots with 0 lvls in spell shield or stats build.

and btw from all the items I can think of in all the mobas, rpgs and dancing simulators basher and abyssal are the worst, hope they are removed from the game some day. Bash s been a cancer to dota since 2004, it is an old wc3 mechanic where the heroes have 1 attack every 2 secs and of course it s been passed to dota where there is 8x faster AS.

Also not to mention that in dota 1 there was a lower chance (increasing with number of atts) for a first hit bash, which is turning the tide in so many pro and pub games.

Now the chance is consistent. #skill #dendi #goodcarry

Abyssal Blade is 100% useless on every hero now. Name one and i'll prove you wrong.

Abyssal is now a frontliner item for Axe or other tanky melee heroes

uh definitely not useless on a bunch of heroes. Maybe not the ideal choice every time but far from useless.

Slark - Ok vanguard maybe not the greatest on him but it's not awful, he gets really tanky
Spec - I liked vanguard on spec before. Spending 1500g on a recipie is probably a 6th slot item, but now instead of selling vanguard for something you can possibly work it into a 6th slot like boots, abyssal, butterfly, heart, radiance, manta

Bristleback
Axe
Wraith king
Spirit breaker
no explanation needed on those guys. It could actually work on almost any strength hero. I could see undying with it, night stalker even.

^lol at slark and spirit breaker wtf

^ slark and spectre. Kappa
Spirit breaker = xD rofl lmao. Bashes don't stack kid might as well just get vanguard on him
"night stalker even" what's wrong with vanguard on night stalker? If you say it's good on the three heroes above then night stalker should be in your first item list instead of as a footnote after one of the least rightclicking str heroes undying

Try it on Undying C:

Pretty much seems like it fits no hero now . Best synergy I can see is antimage :

slark love abyssal, nightstalker, centaure will not dislike it either

@matrice: what do you think? is this the new AM thing? vanguards -> treads -> manta -> abysal?

Every single carry suck ball this patch (even worst than last year ti, since we don't even have gyro or sf on steroid) -only exeption is spectro ofc, since he cann't farm, but who needs ? when a single kill give you 600 gold and you have a spell to be on every single kill
-well you still need to find a team that will make the mistake to let you feed yourself-

The only way for them to be relevant is through split or heavy out farm. Am will need bf no mater what. But instead of the stupid useless vlad, you'll go with a vanguard.

Ya I think vanguard can replace vlads now . Bfury vg , manta abbyssal

Here is the real conspiracy: why does ice frog keep making tp scrolls less expensive?

I forgot sb bash wouldn't stack so not him but a lot of other strength heroes sure.

Very soon tp scrolls will just be an inbuilt ability for every hero