Again, there is no Silver Bullet to improving. It's small iterative steps, changes in attitude, meta learning, awareness, experience, trial and error. Persevere, it will happen in time. Set realistic goals, and allow people to challenge you on those, and listen to their experiences and opinions.
Maybe when I come back to play again (super busy now) I can have you analyze a match of mine Havoc (especially since you play support in your official matches), but that's not for a couple of weeks.
Anyways, good post. This should be stickied and shoved to the faces of people questioning their mmr.
Havoc good guy helped me get rid of Shadow Fiend mentality. He has odd metods but I guess it worked.
You do need "stomach" for his critisism tho. He can be harsh.. ;p
Maybe now all those "help me get out of 2k mmr" and "I'm stuck in 2k mmr, but I'm so good I think my team holds me back" threads will be gone.
^^ Noone can help you you are the worst fucking shit mid sf Ive seen. Whats beyond sad is that you spam the hero and you are still so bad at him.
Set smaller goals don't set a goal to try and achieve 6K and get on a pro team if you're 2K that won't happen. Challenge yourself to reach 2.2 playing a certain hero, challenge yourself to play a role you're unfamiliar with.
a goal that I've found really helpful for me personally is to keep my 1 month and 3 month ranked win rates above a certain percentage. Usually if I want those to be at about 55% (or higher). It's a really simple goal but it's one that I've found very helpful, because I can alternate between worrying about grinding mmr by doing things like spamming Chen when my recent winrate is low, and experimenting with new stuff when my recent winrate is high. On your matches page you can filter matches to a certain time range and set it to only be ranked. Like right now I'm at 54% for both so I'll pick heroes really conservatively and only play heroes that I feel I'm very strong with.
anyway, good post, good post.
I would like to have some advice, really. Harsh is welcome as long as it is legit. I think that I have the mechanics of supporting (stacks, dewarding, zoning, creep pulling, that-right-click-thing-to-manipulate-creep-to-eat-your-ranged-creep) but I have severe lack of knowledge to rotations and ganks. Also where to place obs on scout duty without dying. Could you take a look at my games?
Lich game or anything you fancy
Sorry if I'm bothering any of you. 600 games and I still not improving, I think. It's saddening
@Altr
:45 seconds off the clock and you're still behind your T3's, buy your shit, give it to people get the hell out to the runes or to place early wards to prevent deaths.
:Stop afking mid, if you're gonna be mid doing the deny thing at least stack jungle camps for your mid who can clear it with powershot, or drow can clear it later.
:You're looking only at yourself your camera never shifts and I don't think you need to either cause you're not carrying a TP
:Ranged creeps give very little mana, if you're gonna spam cast deny the melee.
:Shift around the map, stop staying just bot cause you're the "safelane" support, with a couple denies and a ward to the jungle your top might have been ok. Go to another lane for a bit to build them up with farm or at least exp, then go back to the safelane.
:You're holding gold, not a smart thing to do as a solo support, courier being upped at 5 minutes with you sitting on 800 gold is disgraceful, get it up sooner, and get some vision. You have one ward sitting mid soon to expire at 8 minutes.
:Please get used to stacking, enigma, drow, sniper(shrapnel), windranger, can all clear it. You're not needed to sit in lane come in, deny, blast, make sure all's well, then go stack.
:Sniper is 0-4 and still had no help from anyone. Give the poor guy a ward, or at least a couple minutes of support, your lane has an enigma next to it, drow will be fine.
:Wow. Work on your damn camera action, it's like your oblivious to everything that goes on around you cause you won't just move your camera off your heroes. Windranger ganks, you watch, TP, deny tower while she dies, then you go in. You don't even notice she's getting killed.
Evidence of this. Look at where you "A" click is, and look on the minimap at two of your team mates fighting.
:You're going midas......I dunno what to say to that.
:3 wards within 600 range of each other. Place them for maximum visions esp. with a pudge.
:I am pretty sure at this point you think you're playing Spectre, you are farming lanes alone when your team is pushing around as a group.
:Ok, team is fighting, you're farming. You're getting ganked, instead of grouping you do this....
You're stuck in a way I have never seen someone get stuck, you're carrying 3k gold on you, you don't have dust vs mirana, and your map is black vs a Pudge.
You sit there trapped trying to figure out what to do (instead of just TP'ing), then you kill one creep (instead of just TP'ing), then you run around a bit (instead of just TP'ing), then you go into the shop pulling the creep wave with you (instead of just TP'ing), they see you........and DEAD.
:Now you have 2K gold instead of that sceptre you had been saving 3k Gold for.
:Map still black, and despite holding 3 sentries there seems to be a bug in your game that prevents you from placing them.....and dead.
:You're on your hero only, looking no where else, you're done, all your spells used, but instead of going back, or at least buy out you sit there like a champ and tank WK while you throw little ice rocks at him.......and dead.
OK, think I got this suss'd.
1. Stop being afk all game, if you play a support act like it, that means no midas (situational), and no AFK'ing.
2. Stop holding tons of gold at a time you hold it till about 2-3K gold then you die over and over losing tons of gold at a time.
3. Mirana, Pudge, 3x Blinks but you hold wards like it's your virginity.
4. Stack camps, it helps your carries or junglers.
5. Map awareness sucks, you need to move off your hero esp. as a solo support.
6. Itemization sucks, you go midas and straight sceptre, which will not bad, were not the items for this game.
7. You never bought smokes which was something you should have done to shut down their jungle.
8. Read a guide on wards.
9. Please use sentries in team fights, you lost so many cause you couldn't drop 1 of the 3 sentries you carried for 25 minutes.
How do I actually play position 4? And how do I play trilane safe lane as position 4?
What are the common pos 4 heroes? (i assume they are roamers like Tusk, earth spirit etc)
Earth Spirit is a tough one, he's a roamer and can be a position 4 but it can all go really horribly wrong and then you're screwed. I guess playing position 4 is dependent on what your position 5 is, or any of your other heroes for that matter. It makes no sense to pick Earth spirit for a trilane that has a silencer and a Gyro or something just as an example.
The thinking is right, you don't want to perma trilane so you would ideally pick something that could compliment lanes with ganks. SpiritBreaker, and Nightstalker are examples of this. Sometimes though a good old stunner is all you really need, if your other support is a sky or a silencer pick Vengeful for example, if you have a stunner you can get away with a Venomancer, or silencer pick but its very game dependent.
Tusk is immense but requires you to not mess up if you're taking people in with your snowball. Support/Roaming tusk should look a bit like this if you would like to watch the game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2242038064 I did have some miscommunication with the Bara and went offlane instead of him but even this game is an example of a position 4 Bara/Tusk so you can watch either.
:0 I didn't expect to be that detailed, thanks a lot for looking through cancer :0
About late to rune: we're still arguing how we'll lane. I usually go 2 obs (1 to mid), tango (2 to mid) salve 2 branch go to rune. This game I messed up, I acknowledge that
I thought that you'll never drop reliable golds and having item in stash isn't do any justice tbh. My bad
About wards, I do read the guides, but it completely lost from my head when in game somehow. Practice makes perfect it seems, I'll try better
About ranged creeps: I eat them for pulling the lane closer to tower
The rest is, I know it was wrong when I give the afterthought, but never in game somehow. I know that my camera should be as dynamic as possible, but it didn't executed in game. Thanks a lot for your time and your advice, will do better, I hope, so your time didn't completely wasted
Cheers
*about that stuck, lol. It was braindead moment. I didn't even realise I have tp, that's why I go to shop. Pure wtf moment*
Hey can you do this one - http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2240914883
The one big mistake I know I made was when I was walking up from the rune and lightning bolted the TA, she turned on refraction and popped a trap and the SK came around and stunned me. Did ok but got carried by the Luna imo.
Sam if you arent busy with fball can you analyze my games for me? I think i have shit macro butif you see anything wrong with my micro i wont mind if you go full British on me
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2233181559 , http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2237150757 plz advise .. generally i look into my lost match to find out wat can i do more to carry the game / improve my gameplay, i don c my winning game much ..
that midas on supp introduced by misery really ruin some game ... i rather go blink dagger than midas in 20mins game
btw , i don understand y ppl don buy the item while hv sufficient gold , properly bank is giving high interest... kappa
Can I ask for insight on how I play my tinker? Currently aiming to finally hit 50% winrate but still quite not there. Feel free to check out any of my tinker games. I don't care if you go beastmode-honest at me as long as there's good insight to them. Thanks.
@Murranji I will do it when I am back home, but I fail to see how analyzing a win is beneficial but will do it anyways.
@G_G you will have to be more specific, pick a particular game you have an feeling you may have messed up but you're not quite sure where.
@rick_zai will look at them when I get home, just looking from a birds eye of the game on yasp and here it looks like on the surface everything was going your way, my guess (without watching) is you made some big mistakes late game which cost you those games. Stuff like buying an item without buyback then getting caught out, around 50 minutes is when you need to be so careful and never be alone cause even a single death can cost you the game at that point. Will still look when I get home.
Its good to celebrate success, and understand what caused it, but its the weaknesses that hinder a player, and can limit your success.
Information is a good way to analyze success (winrates, builds, stats, etc) but weaknesses are a cultural thing mostly that require watching, and reading into the game. Which is why I prefer to watch losses then watch a win which I could guess the cause from looking at picks, builds, end game stats.
Still, will get around to it.
How about my last ta match? I was against a 3.7k invoker and i was nervous af but i tried my best
@Havoc Badger
If u could tell me anything to help me improve in my playing style or anything about my games
Some of my Games I need input about
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2242049917
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2236674115
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2241883268
Be brutally honest and direct what I did wrong (mostly my mistake)
Hes not harsh, just honest. We are all shitters compared to the people over us, if we want to gain mmr and skill we have to be able to accept that without hesitation.
Can u look at my last tinker game and tell me what i could have done better to turn it into a win? i recognize that i'm shit but i was really trying that match.
cant wait for ur analysis but i haven watch the game replay yet coz my pc is broken...
i rarely throw the game at late game but my teammate did , they nvr listen when ppl say b ... stand out of position n get caught , sometimes greedy kill them very much and they nvr learn from that...
besides , i realize at range below 4k mmr , don ever do roshan when u feel ur teammate is kind of thrower ... ppl may throw at rs if don hv teamwork n nice positioning ... and aegis is a deadly item for braindead guy ...
@laughing man
keeping soul ring is important because it gives you a LOT more mana at all stages in the game due to you being able to cast multiple rearms in a single mana pool (and as a result use soul ring more). later in the game you should be keeping bottle in your stash and swapping it when you're in fountain to heal faster.
bottle is +180 mana pool effectively. soul ring depends on how many rearms you can get in a full mana pool but it's much more than 180. example - if you can get 5 rearms (and other spells) before you need to go back to fountain to heal, if you had soul ring that'd be 6 usages (because you use it once before casting the first rearm) so it would have effectively granted you [u]at least[/u] +900 mana, because there's ways you can get more mana out of each soul ring usage, which is by dropping any mana pool increasing items before using it.
it doesn't matter that you built soul ring into bloodstone. you still buy a second soul ring immediately after if you have space because it is probably the best item purely for providing mana pool despite it only being 800g.
anyways first thing is that your team placed a ward for you in the mid lane, and someone else also gave you a ward which you didnt place until the 2 minute mark. that could have been given to the offlaner to block the pull camp or see what the supports are up to. the bot rune ward is unnecessary when top rune is already warded.
your travels timing are terrible - 11 miinute naked travels are not good, that's roughly the timing you'd expect someone to have travels on top of soul ring - despite you getting 2 kills before getting them and that's because of your skill build and because you tunnel visioned too much on trying to kill the invoker and as a result you ignore many last hits. the 2 kills that you got as a result of your skill build do not make up for all the last hits that you would have gotten if you had used march to farm the jungle when the lane's pushed out and all the last hits that you missed because you were focused too much on wasting your mana trying to kill an invoker when you don't have nearly enough damage.
in the first 10 minutes of the game you used rocket like 5 times, and it probably only helped out on 1 kill which was the jugg's at 10 minutes. every other time it was a waste of mana that you used to try and zone people and as a result you're almost always lacking mana to attempt kills. had they been points into march you'd have travels sooner and be able to start snowballing earlier, your farm slows down in the mid game because of your build. like for the first 20 minutes of the game, you're barely at 300 gpm and that's because your skill build that you unnecessarily wasted skill points into requires you to get kills often and you're not doing so.
tip - don't level up active abilities unless you're about to use them. for missiles you only want to level them up if they'll get you a kill. generally tinkers get 2 points into laser early on to help them trade hits. you should keep your other skill points spare in case you either need march to push out the wave, or rocket to finish off a kill, but you don't need to max it. 2 into laser and rockets should be enough while still allowing you to get march to keep up in farm. you shouldn't be using missiles for harass when you have laser which does a better job of it. it's less mana for more damage and effectively frees up skill points that can be put into march instead.
at 16 you get rearm when you have 900 mana pool, and then you get rid of soul ring which makes you have to go back to base after casting rearm once, that slows down your farm when you could be farming jungle camps in between lanes instead of having to constantly go back to base.
look at the rosh pit fight at 36 mins. all you're able to do is cast march 4 times as a result of having lv 3 rearm and no soul ring. in that fight, rearming faster did litearlly nothing.
same with the base defence at 40-41 mins. you have 17.5k networth and all you're able to do with it is cast 4 marches before you go back to base, and when you do, the enemy take your ranged rax and almost your melee because you have no mana and you're not restoring it as efficiently as you could be (lowering your mana pool before using bottle/soul ring, or having a soul ring in the first place).
at the 49 minute rosh fight you immediately do a blind blink into the pit when you see the nether ward debuff icon on your status bar after tping onto the venge and all you're able to do is kill the jugg before dying to nether ward.
you got a bunch of kills but that doesn't mean you could have gotten more done. there were a few hex pickoffs that you also missed due to rearming too late or not getting the initial hex off quick enough. use quick cast and prioritise getting another hex off rather than getting damage in if you have a teammate to provide damage, but ideally you shouldn't have to in the first place, you should have plenty of time to use all your spells in time to rearm and then hex again.
pretty much all your problems stem from a lack of mana and a lack of items which can be traced to the early game - not last hitting well in the early game because you're focusing too much on trying to kill the enemy mid, which makes you miss last hits, and not using a skill build that allows you to farm quicker, plus levelling rearm at every possible moment when you don't have the mana pool to support it nor the items causes you to have more mana problems. like you don't need level 3 rearm when all you're doing is using march to farm creeps. it just makes you have to go back to base more often, and you probably think "im a tinker, who cares if i go back to base". every unneccesary TP back to base that could be avoided if rearm was cheaper for example could have been you farming another creep wave or 2 neutral camps. if you think of how many wasteful TPs you make that are basically costing you ~180g each, they add up.
get soul ring after bloodstone unless you have no room (bottle doesn't count), focus on farming not kills early on. having travels even just 2 minutes sooner has a much bigger effect on your late game item timings because you're starting your farm acceleration sooner if that makes sense. use the march build, save skill points unless you are about to use the ability, and get soul ring before travels with the march build so that you can farm the jungle in between the lane.
Would appreciate if someone could analyse pretty much any of the games from the last week (win or lose. I think even my wins I basically didn't contribute).
I was on holiday for a week and it just seems that I've lost the ability to not play like an idiot
Especially interested in these two:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2240009727
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2236489069
Can you help me how to position with supports like lion,lina and shaman in fights and where the difference is between wd warlock etc?
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...but how do you stop sucking and actually hone your skill, or limited skill into something more refined.
Firstly for all new players or even players looking to make an improvement I would recommend reading the article https://purgegamers.true.io/g/dota-2-guide/ that sets the baseline for what to expect, and what's expected of you in a game of Dota2.
So you understand the game, you know item builds, you understand the roles but why do you still play so awfully when in theory you're doing everything right. Lets start out by removing the element of MMR. Don't think of MMR as an indicator of skill, think of it as correlative element, or a byproduct impacted by your skill.
Next, understand that not everyone was born to be a king but that doesn't mean you can't strive to be one. Establish realistic goals of where you want to go, what you want to do. Let people tell you how skilled you are, don't listen to people being malicious, but people with criticisms, even if you disagree are worth taking into account. Allow people to critic you, don't get salty about it, don't boast, be humble and try and take it in. You're not a king yet.
Set smaller goals don't set a goal to try and achieve 6K and get on a pro team if you're 2K that won't happen. Challenge yourself to reach 2.2 playing a certain hero, challenge yourself to play a role you're unfamiliar with. Make them achievable. Also get out of your head that you will ever be a professional player, make a team and win money, become a known Dota2 player that just isn't going to happen. EVER.
Do not make a smurf with the wrong motives at heart. I cannot stress this enough, you're ditching a main account, to make a new one, to get a number, in a game, that you didn't deserve, and proves nothing, and means nothing. It's ludicrous that people do this. If you make a smurf, DO NOT play in exactly the same way you always have again, and again. You're not learning anything, you're repeating mistakes, and ingraining them even harder, forming awful habits and terrible attitudes, and you will never get better.
I understand better than anyone that climbing is hard, hell, it took me 2 years after calibration to climb 1.5K rating then my baseline. It takes time. Taking DDsama as an example he was lower MMR than I was originally but just slowly kept at it, kept learning, kept listening out for information, kept trying, and two years on he has 2x 7K accounts achieved through hard work and improvement. It can happen for you as well, maybe not 7k but somewhere better than where you are now and with more experience and you will feel more accomplished because of it.
Smurfing cheapens the experience of learning, or even improving. Lets take a college or place of learning. Yes, learning is hard, can be not fun at times, can feel like the day to day boring churn of endless nothings but if you pay off the principal to pass you and give you a diploma, then why bother. Then when it comes down to putting your diploma (MMR) to practice you will find yourself lacking, people will know flat out that you lied or cheated your way through, and in the long run you will wish you had just sat through it and buckled down. Dota can suck at times that much is true, but it can also be really rewarding. People will try and trip you on the way, people will stumble you but if you grit on with genuine determination, taking those baby steps day by day you will eventually make it no matter how slow.
Pacing has a lot to do with this as well. Some people try and move to fast, and tire themselves by doing so, they grow increasingly frustrated, and this reflects on their gameplay. It's not beneficial to play constantly while on tilt, its like a gamblers downfall, hoping the next game will be the win you wanted all the while ruining games cause you're tilting yourself and people around you. Take a break, there are custom games, other games, friends, food, go for a run, do whatever you need to clear your head and reset the timer on your frustration.
Do not question other players. They are individuals just like you, and have their preferences and shortcomings. You're within your right to think what they're doing is wrong but you shouldn't voice that because that creates unneeded animosity in your games which is something you do not need to build in a team game environment. Focus on you, and only you, how can you get the most out of this game, how can you benefit the team in the largest capacity. This is not about playing selfish, its about knowing when to play for the team and when to play for yourself from a strategic stand point not a salty one. It's very important to know the difference.
Probably the most important thing that I can leave with you is what happens in a game that effects what happens after. The choice is ultimately yours. Someone has ruined a game for you, and it sucks, maybe you did everything you could, maybe you raged, that's on you. The loss isn't on you, but the subsequent losses might be as a direct effect of you getting emotionally moved by someone's mischief and before you know it, you're ruining a game and becoming the person that you were livid at for ruining yours.
If a game is being thrown, play like it wasn't. Don't let the attitudes, and tilt of other players effect you, it's rough I know but you need to learn to rise above it. At the end of a game they are gone and you have to go next, do you really want the unneeded burden of last game affecting the next game you play.
Attitudes is something I feel isn't addressed enough though and people focus on itemization, positioning and other things when in reality a lot of what is problematic is their shitty attitudes, easiness to tilt, or generally overly zealous egos that place them on a throne above the people of equal stature. You're not better than your peers, you're not a special snowflake, and even in the off chance you are people will notice you do not need to announce it. "Why do I get these players" "What MMR will I calibrate" "That moment when..." etc. are surefire ways of identifying that you're in serious need of an attitude improvement.
Lastly I am welcoming any SERIOUS questions about improving or any analysis information you would want on a particular match. I will be brutally honest and as long as you can stomach the harshness I can help you identify gaps, and weaknesses in your gameplay. The Dota2 world is full of experienced and skilled individuals who are always opening to giving information if you're willing to listen.
I can help you with...
> Itemization
> Objective Priorities
> General Analysis
> Hero Performance
> General "What to do when" questions
> Positioning
/rant