General Discussionis medusa 6.86 a buff or nerf?

I think it used to be better early game, now it scales lategame.

It's worse against enemy heroes that have small mana pools, but dramatically better against those with sizable ones. It used to be 20/35/50/65 and scaled with jumps. Now level 1 Mystic Snake drains more mana than the old level 4(first bounce) did once the enemy has 591 mana. The old stole 179 mana on the 6th hit(lvl 4), this requires the opponent to have 1628 mana for level 1 to steal the same and 895 for level 4 to steal the same. It's a buff to the late game for sure.

EDIT: And just to clarify that's just on a single bounce with the new snake. That's not hitting all 5 members of the enemy team. If you need mana for some reason and there's only one target, it's amazing to use still.

I find it better, somehow

its the same early, better late

Is it even a question, buff of course . Dont listen to those idiots say nerf early buff late or vice versa . They are just fking idiot . It totally buff from early till late , from a vhs player

Early game weak nerf, lategame buff. That means you cant beat a Dusa in lategame as a spellcaster anymore.

A lvl2 snake already steal more mana on a ranged creep, than it did bouncing on 2 enemy unit (that has mana :p). It's a huge buff

its a nerf early.
you cant just spam it anymore if you dont hit a hero.

late game its better.

Did you just read the number ????????

It's giving MUCH MORE mana as long as you hit the ranged creep....

Same early, HUGE buff midgame, actually useful late

what number, it doesnt give you more mana if you hit ranged creep. old snake could refund you full mana cost and give you back on top in a lane.
new snake gives you around 100 mana if you hit a ranged creep. it doesnt drain mana from melee creeps since they dont have mana, and you dont get mana from their bounces.

its way better if it hits heroes (you are way too dependent to hit a hero to steal mana), its worse to spam in a lane as a wave clear.

edit: and just to make sure ill play a game with medusa now.

Dude bounces didn't increase mana steal if it hits manaless unit. So no matter if you would start or end with a ranged creep.

you dont know whether its buff or nerf => you go to the trends tab and check winrate => you see +4.2% => its a buff

im comparing it to old snake, old snake would count bounces, new one doesnt.
its better at later levels thats for sure, and vs heroes. if you use it right now at lvl 3 its a mana sink.

Old one wouldn't increase it's mana steal IF it hitted mele creep, as they are mana less.

Thus even touching 1 hero + ranged creep would still provide less mana than touching ranged creep now.

you would get more mana the more units you hit with old medusa afaik

Personally i like to get soul ring on dusa for these reasons

DUDE IT DIDN'T INCREASE MANA STEAL IF IT BOUNCED OFF A MANALESS UNIT.

xan is high

nm, coz i could swear it did steal more mana the more units it hit. i cant find the changelog, stupid valve site is useless.

@fagison it doesnt affect me. i wrote afaik.

Just open a War3 dota game and try Medusa's snake there, it hadn't changed that mechanic since then until 6.86

I mean, that's the reason why people claimed that a successful very early jungling Medusa depended on her luck with Satyr camps. Aka the one camp that spawned 3-4 units, all of them with a significant mana pool.

The manasteal used to increase every time you hit a unit with a manapool ( Ranged Creep, Hero, certain jungle creeps) The damage would increase if you hit a unit without mana but the manasteal would not.

New snake is about the same possibly very slightly worse at early levels. by level 3 snake its better in most cases. Late game its much better then the old snake. The only time its worse is if your team has a silencer who has stolen all of their int and the entire enemy team is running around with 1 int each. In which case it doesn't matter that snake is worse since you've already won

Ranged creeps have 500 mana. This means that you would steal 55/70/85/100 from it. So if that's the only mana enemy you hit, then you lose 85/80/75/70 mana per cast. Which means that if you can manage to hit at least 1 other target with the same mana pool, then at level 3 you would start gaining mana(-30/-10/10/30).

to all the fking idiot which mmr below 4.8 k , its definitely a buff in no matter early or late game , you fools. you can just spam it to hero as first target , like zeus , with 5 times , he will completely out of mana , it steal 20% of total mana no matter first or last jump , dun act like u guys know how to play dota 2 you 4 k scrubs