General DiscussionWhat's the alchemist build now?

I'm just guessing, greed, acid, greed, acid, greed, ult, greed, acid? For mid anyway probably cus you want acid to zone out and farm.

Guys did you know... maxing greed early isnt the best build...

Botle>treads>radiance>manta>octarine>ac>abysal>moon shard

greed/acid/acid/greed/acid/ult/acid/greed/greed/stun/ult/stun/stun/stun/stats/ult/stats to 25

qb+stout -> min0 bottle -> boots -> radiance -> travels -> manta -> octarine -> blademail -> lotus orb

at this point you are six slotted with the following:

~50% uptime on both blademail and lotus orb (when blademail is up, thanks to octarine you are effectively taking only 75% damage)
~90% uptime on ultimate

people cannot chain stun you and burst you down because of lotus, you have 20+ armour thanks to blademail/lotus, people cannot outrun you generally thanks to travels+ult+manta, people cannot physically burst you without committing to either king bars.

meanwhile you are running around burning them (each radiance target gives you an extra ~8-9 hp regen/second), lowering their armour (acid has 99% uptime), tossing random stuns around and irritating the fuck out of people with your illusions

at this point you farm aghs for your teammates while they cry at how powerless they are as you lord over them and deprive their team of provisions, towers and eventually the ancient

Sounds like a nightmare to play against that alch

aghs>aghs>aghs>aghs>brown boot

do you go mana boots => radiance then breaker the boots later for octarine, like on naga? Or is it just faster farming to go straight radiance ?

lol blademail octarine interaction is some cheep ass bull shit.

honestly lotus orb is a pretty boring item, so is blademail.

yeah because two anti-carry tech items with 50% uptime that scale with the enemy's farm is "boring"

one prevents you from being chain disabled and the other gives you a 25% damage reduction as long as the enemies don't have magic immunity (which, fyi, is more than Spectre's level 4 dispersion)

i mean you can always get more "exciting" items in normal skill

"boring item"

because that's how you make item decisions rofl

Also, BM/Lotus sounds like a really legit build to try especially if you're ratting.

I thought the same about Zenoth build like, omg no damage, but honestly, just running with radiance early on + minus armor is just enough, and with blademail+ lotus orb they just cant stop you from running at them

Why do people play alchemist like Naga, while there is Naga?

because it's harder to shut down an alch

check out this offlane/roaming alchemist build, foolproof works every time

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1660595793

first: it's harder to control alch than naga. a naga with a bad start will struggle to come back, and cannot rely on stacks since she can only reliably clear medium camps stacks with riptide. alchemist on the other hand is a stronger laner mid, while being able to use stacks far more effectively and can potentially snowball off bounty runes if you get lucky with runes.

second: currently there isn't anything that outstandingly counters alchemist. giving him the naga treatment can only delay his farm by so much - unless you win the other two lanes you cannot keep up the pressure sufficiently, and many a game where the opponents warded my jungle and camped it I just moved to their jungle and set up shop there.

third: alch comes online faster. in a good game where you get a few bounty runes and a teammate stacks a few camps, you can have radiance under 10 minutes. in a difficult lane with a contested jungle it still shouldn't be much slower than 14 minutes. naga on the other hand gets her radiance at 14-15 minutes in a great game, and 20-26 minutes in a difficult one. the window of opportunity to shutdown naga is greater.

fourth: if the game goes late, both alch and naga will have a tendency to starve their teammates. however, a six-slotted alch can still benefit his teammates greatly, whereas a six-slotted naga does not benefit much from farm despite still having to keep the waves pushed out.

the question is, did youwant to have a fucking alchemist run to you with radiance on at 10 min? burst him down? he have a fucking great HP regen on his ult. 1v1? with spray acid buff and low mana cost he can just throw acid at mid and win mid. try to kill him? creeps + acid is hurt. you kill him? his support stack jungle camps. and he can clear it easily with acid and ult. 7 min radiance guaranteed.

Agressive : Octarine, BOT, BKB, Rad, Cuirass, MKB
Super Tanky : Heart, Cuirass, Octarine, Bot, Rad/Mjo, BKB
Semi - supp : Rad, Pipe (if necessary), Octarine, Lotus Orb, BOT, Shivas, Cuirass

* Boots are optional and can be replaced by other core items such as : Initiators (dagg, silver edge), Skadi, Moonshard, Shivas, Butterfly, Daedalus, Solar Crest, Manta, Mjo, Abyssal, Deso.
* Stay in the lane until lvl 6 + midas, then farm at your base' farmsite.
* As much as possible dont initiate a solo-kill, just farm and farm.
* Dont hesitate to use ss anytime, have atleast 1 mango.
* Refrain from being a bottle crower and take runes (especially bounty)

Dont be a RATLORD.

once you go rat, you never go back.

normal skill advice kappa

honestly i dont like the idea of midas, it slows down your farm considerably. the only thing it's good for is levels which alch already gets pretty fast

^^ radiance + blink + manta + octCore + necroBook + BoTs. Take stats over stun in the skill build. Never show up for a fight, even if it is sure that you will win it. 9/11 build would destroy more towers (pls NSA people reading this, is joke don't send me to Guantanamo).

Zenoth has it about right...Alch will never be full scale carry, however he can be potent split pusher on its own.

How come no one ever does armlet? One of the best str items per cost, and the hp drain doesn't matter with ult up. You can get battlefury, armlet, ac, basher by like 25-30 mins, that will man fight any carry at that point of the game, that's like what naix dreams of having for end game by ~45 mins.

Alchemist gets gold pretty fast, so it's better to aim for big items rather than cost-effective ones. If you wanna get a lot of strength you just get a heart later on since he gets 6-slotted very fast.

Radiance is trash on him, buy Iron Branches.

Alch battlefury, armlet, ac, basher gets outmanfight'd by other manfight carries with 2 items.

the marginal utility of midas is awful
it slows down your farm, actually, not improves it

No alch doesn't get out man fought by carries with 2 items, I wrecked TA with this build. And he was way ahead, deso, phase, bkb, blink when all I had was battlefury and armlet but I could 1v1 him at that point as long as ult was up (and dust of course). TA isn't a manfighting carry?

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1869361877

Idk I'll have to keep trying it, but even though alch does get 6 slotted fast, I don't think that's a reason to completely ignore one of the most cost effective str items. It gives you a big advantage mid game.