General Discussioni just dropped a few games in 2k..

there is no way 5k is easier than 2k you are experiencing symptoms of being silly.

99% smurfs, 1% just bad luck (uncarriable game).

Well you did have an Alchemist on your team. Random Kunkkas are not easy to win with either.

The skill builds for omni, clock and riki also look very random, so you probably just had bad luck (SF went for heart over satanic as well)

Doesnt look like you were stomping.

not in that game I wasn't... I said most not all or this.

It doesn't look like you are stomping in most of your games either.

VHS skill supporting is awesome carries can farm and dont flame
normal skill sucks no one farms and carries feed and flame
so yeah for me its easier

which one is yours? i would like to take a look at your games.

The thing is with low MMR games - how do you out farm the 38 deaths your team provided? It's not possible. The only way to win is to feed on the enemy team even faster than your team feeds. And even then one mistake could lose the game if you don't end it soon enough. Late game someone will randomly feed. It could be your team or the other and has little to do with performance previously. So you have to end the game before it gets like that.

I failed to do so in this game. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1517599919

The zero offense storm got pouty because I was supposedly ksing him with BS. Nevermind that I had over 20 kills to which he contributed nothing, and set up nearly all of his kills. Nevermind that my hero damage is 25,000 higher than his. He was too bad to understand what was happening. So he spent the last 20 minutes zipping around the map using all mana to zero to throw the game. I was not able to finish off their base alone because my bkb was already at 5 sec.

Despite crushing the enemy slark in the lane so hard he didnt' get boots until 10:12... my team still managed to feed him like crazy.

There is huge list of reasons one could cite why this game was unwinnable for me. But despite all this, really its still my fault I lost. I died 11 times and only 4 of those were really after the game became impossible to win. So if I had played more perfectly and somehow anticipated the random bouts of pathetic cowardice my team displayed that caused my deaths I could have won. Or maybe if I had noticed in the first 0.25 seconds that they panicked and were going to run instead of actually casting spells I could have turned around and juked my way out instead of trying to finish a kill that would heal me if they did more than zero.

When I got the account...:

16-3
20-3
19-7
18-13 (account in LPP, forced all random, I don't ever play puck so.. yeah)
17-3
14-6
5-2 (trolling with friends, intelligence sniper)
3-20 (trolling with friends, fed 15 deaths in first 10 mins, then proceeded to win game)
16-10 (trolling with friends, AM+PA offlane super aggressive never farm only kills)
7-9 (we somehow got into v.high idk, still demolished them, they just targetted me)
15-3
5-10 (randomed lich, team fed)
10-6 (randomed tinker, i don't play tinker, team fed)
11-6 (this is the game im wondering if their mid was a booster, because he rolled my team and im pretty good at meepo I should be able to win them, this is the game i made the topic about.)
20-1 ember

idk seems like stomping to me, you just don't know the story behind all games.

@Relentless:

Yeah, it seems in 2k some games really ARE unwinnable. Pretty frequently at that (and by that I mean maybe 1 in 10). Though to be fair, the MMR system still works. You will never get stuck in 2k. If you're better you will still carry those other 9/10 games.

@New jenkinZ!:

Not looking to win games. If I wanted to I already know how to do that easily. I could easily maintain 95% all the way to at least 3k. I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed that some 2k games seem harder than 4/5k simply because the other 9 players are so volatile its just a feed fest.

^i saw y0nd (7-7.5k solo) on twitch boosting from 2.5 to 4k. at that point he had 29-0.
there are no unwinnable games, if you fail to solocarry them, it means that you did mistakes in early game and couldnt snowball and press your enemies as hard as you should. its more abou indirect impact though, so it is rather hard to realize and understand that.

Yeah, I'm sure I could do nearly as well if I just stacked an easy pub stomper. I've just been dicking around with random heroes so far. I made the smurf to dick around not to win games. But there also seems to be a lot of smurfs in this mmr. I see people play like 2k, you can tell because the downs just pours from their hero, and then you see someone who looks like they play easily like 4-5k. Of course, maybe they are only 3k good with good mechanics and have terrible map awareness/etc. that keeps them there but there definitely are a lot of visible smurfs/boosters here. I guess it's a lot easier to see when everyone else is borderline retarded. (I mean, new, and learning >.>)

If you pick someone like storm/qop/ember for example its easy to solo win games.

If you are lich/dazzle or tinker (if you have played him like 3 times) it's a bit harder lol.

I think it just depends on if you really know a hero inside and out or not. But you need to do a lot of hero damage or a lot of tower damage to win games despite the team feeding.

This could be with mid hero (Zeus 33 wins, 11 losses) or it could be done with a support (Lich 52 wins, 14 losses). But you have to win early, win big, and keep dominating all game. Just getting enemy heroes off the map (dead/hiding) is the surest way to stop bad players from feeding them. If the enemy heroes are not dead, someone will feed them because who wins fights is nearly accidental. Players do not know what is happening next to them.

Watching hundreds of replays from player perspectives has solidly convinced me, nearly all pub dota players do not know what is happening as it happens. You could try to attribute it (and many people do) to stupidity. But it can't be that because however stupid player XYZ might look at the moment - in the next game or in the previous game they were pwning everyone at the same MMR. So instead I say its not a problem with their judgement, but their perception. They make choices based on incorrectly seeing the game, not incorrectly thinking about the game. They do something dumb because they are playing a game that's not quite reality, mostly in which heroes are not really in the positions they thought they were. People lose track of where everyone is and what spells were cast.

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1517436869

End game stats of this game don't look like it, but my team started feeding everywhere very badly. At 18 minutes I was 6-1-4, and the other 4 heroes on my team combined for 4-9-2. I had 100% kill participation and only died once to bristleback with haste. The Doom was 1-2-0 at this point and had done almost nothing but afk jungle + feed, casting doom once in 20 min on a low hero for his one kill. But his perception of the game was so poor he started complaining that I was feeding and had lost mid and didn't gank. Reality was I was the only one on my team succeeding and so far ahead that I more than balanced out the kills for the team.

I end up 16-5-35, with 45,300 hero damage and just dragged this feeder team across the finish line. All 4 of them started badly, but they were able to recover because I kept the other team dead half the game. Few of my heroes are good enough to do this even in a 3k MMR game.

But the point is, if you want to keep your team from feeding back the advantages they have you need to either end the game, or keep the other team dead so they can't feed on your team. If they have the opportunity, your team WILL feed no matter how far ahead they are because they feed based on an inability to see the game.

^you remind me a lot of myself. I added you cause im curious to talk some things with you.

rarely games are not winnable, even in shitbracket.

But in your case you simply did poorly. If you had lost wit something like spectre, am, dusa etc, then it's understandable, but losing as meepo in shittier is not an option.

And no, i highly doubt SF was a booster, looking at his item progession i highly doubt it.

I encounter players now and then who seem to belong about 1k higher. But I think this is just because they happen to be playing a particular favorite hero. They might play a dangerous storm spirit, but feed with tinker. Or maybe they know how to snowball on riki, but fail consistently with clinkz. Even if its a similar hero - if they practiced on a lot and have confidence they can play a lot better. On the hero they don't know they might get decent KDA, but will lose the game because any close engagement they choose to farm instead of turning a fight.

For carries... I know Luna, played over 500 games of luna in dota 1. So I'm 53- 38 win/loss, KDA 3.88. Drow should be similar, aura, range, glass cannon.... but I'm 21-31 win/loss KDA 1.79. And the Luna games, I won in Very High...while the Drow games I lost in Normal. The difference, I know exactly what I can and can't do with Luna so she doesn't die much...while Drow dies in fights all the time and gets picked off far more. Luna, my lasthitting is solid....Drow my lasthitting sucks.

If I played 500 games of drow maybe it would reach the level of Luna's play, but it would take a lot of work to find out.

So when you randomly encounter someone who seems out of place either feeding massively or outplaying everyone - I think its mostly just the hero choice. Although boosters do exist.

Drow and luna are not similar playstyles at all.

Completely different ranges, completely different last hit animations, one has nukes, one has slows/knockback, they don't even have the same core items except for bkb and maybe manta which I would argue isn't core on drow. Drow's playstyle is probably closer to clinkz than luna.

Most equivalent to Luna is Gyrocopter. Both are short range agility carries with aoe right-clicks, high damage nukes and are very fragile with lack of escape ability (other than high base ms). Their item builds are basically the same too, other than phase being a no-no on Luna (though treads has become more trendy on gyro).

i aggree about ending games fast on low mmr
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/567912923
look at this match, a perfect example of how to coordinate the game and take throne fast.

If u are dicking around in the bracket then why are you complaining about how hard it is in 2k? Im like 30-0 in this 4-5k unranked and its literally piss ez. Yes there are games people rage and abandon but its still ez. I cant imagine in 2k what it is like.

he's not dicking around, he's another meepo autist who's probably like -1500 mmr on every other hero

just look at the atrocious win rates on his other top heroes