You draft was fucking awful and you didn't ban the right heroes. You didn't do anything early which allowed their superior team to destroy you mid game.
You had no early, no late, no mid.
Honestly, they outdrafted you.
You had a weak trilane; the kind Bristleback loves. They had a powerful trilane that could easily zone out your Axe. Storm mid feeds on SF the moment he hits 6.
Your lineup COULD have won but by no means was it a better one.
I agree that ur pick was good. You had the right ideas i think and countered them partly. But your choice of items was horrible. You have two mekas in team and SF needs euls vs orchid storm. Shows that u guys had 0 communication and low experience. here some examples why the choice of heros wasn't ideal: Disruptors silence + glimpse is too ez to dodge w stormspirit. You need a solid silence/lockdown vs him. Thats why u got the lion, but my Guess is that storm just silenced him before he could help w anything. Axe's dunk vs dazzle's grave, ofc, but trolls permastun wont get him many spins eventually. One BKB outplays ur entire team. Would have been next item on storm probably .. and it goes on w ur bans, which was only focused on carries and not helping your team at all.
I wish u better luck next time.
"I agree that ur pick was good. You had the right ideas i think and countered them partly"
JUST WAT!!
didn't watch game, just looking at the scoreboard:
both of your supports have a mek, so you have 2 meks which don't stack and hinder their item progression;
i.e. lion wants blink & disruptor wants aghs to be useful
just tell your supports that you'll get mek on sf (which isn't so bad since you're not pos 1 farmer anyway) it's surely better than just rushing skadi
Its not about hate but starting your wall of text with something that off makes people discredit anything else you've said in the rest of it.
His picks were awful, his bans were awful. He has a preselected midset of going Shadow Fiend cause he had played him recently and thought he could have done as well in a CM as he did in a AP game.
Where does tiny fit against picks like troll and bristle?
He last picked the carry (again tiny?) and 4th picked your mid which allowed them enough optional picks to counter SF hard.
Again tiny? Just what the fuck!
Second picked Axe which didn't help him at all.
.....just so much wrong about this game. Lion was possible the only good pick on that entire team. Straight Skadi on SF is just pure garbage.
lol well lemme get some suggestions on what I should have drafted instead. And Havoc, you appear pretty worked up over my draft, if you could calm down that'd be great. The Axe pick is fine, hundreds of games have Axe in the first phase and against a Dazzle is a fine pick I think.
So should I be last picking my mid? What carry would've been better? What would your draft be? And what should I have banned?
No one is worked up over anything. You drafted bad, played bad and lost. Your closing statement is hilarious.
"I honestly think we outdrafted them HARD" how did you do that might i ask?
Picks and bans these days usually go with Troll, Sniper, Juggernaut, Storm for a very, very good reason.
"I found out how bad some of these guys were." You mean like the Skadi first SF cause that was pretty fucking bad.
You're blaming your supports for not doing what I would expect no one in 2k rating to do anyways. You failed mid and tiny did nothing all game. In perspective...
The terrible disruptor finished with more impact then you, and the terrible lion finished with more impact then tiny despite their mistakes. You aren't going to get better by me validating your delusions that you picked, and performed well and everyone else in your team was the problem.
Draft tiny if you have either a wisp on your team or a mid troll as getting tiny off the ground pays off in the long run but absolutely sucks ass early mid game unless you have had the good fortune of snagging some advantage early.
Did you not consider drafting Meepo as a last pick? He does decently well against a number of their picks and you seem to have gotten a good handle on him.
I'm not trying to validate anything dude. Where did I say in my post that I played good or bad? You weren't in the game so I guess you couldn't see the Disruptor sit in lane drawing creep aggro trying to harass the Bristle the entire game, not stacing or pulling.
People want to use this Board to get support, feedback and learn from another. If they only read that they are fuckin bad and being talked to like a peasant, they can also just play another pub game.
"You draft was fucking awful and you didn't ban the right heroes. You didn't do anything early which allowed their superior team to destroy you mid game.
You had no early, no late, no mid."
Good job, this forum is now exclusivly Yours.
TY Hush, I think your comments helped me the most. I will continue my tryharding and hope to get better at drafting. BTW, how do you think the draft was this match?
That sucks that he was doing that but I doubt that in the grand scheme of things that had anything to do with losing the game. Here's a suggestion.
If they get troll pick sniper
If you get sniper bad storm
If they pick sniper you have options of - Zeus, QoP, and Spirit Breaker
Don't draft Axe anymore, he was a pocket strat when he was pretty good but the nerfs have hit him hard.
Try and ban troll, he just makes games annoying whether your team has him or theirs.
Some examples of things....
Had a friend really dying to play huskar in CM so I drafted around him http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1304880329 right clickers and escape assholes gone. Drafted lich, and Venomancer for the Axe, and Bara to secure the mid game while medusa just used the space to afk farm which he did well.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1297574618 So similarly skilled team to yours who had a history of shitty drafting. First bans are troll and jugger, first picked sniper lich, then secured the sniper pick by taking out the nyx, and storm. It was a mix up between QoP and Nyx and I much preferred to face a QoP then an nyx in the grand scheme of things. Again Venomancer for the Axe pick who did nothing as per the usual, and the zeus pickup to help secure mid game with bara while sniper farmed. I banned drow cause I was a little concerned about split as US people love rat dota.....was probably a mistake as it may have been worth going for something else.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1304998592 First picked bristle so instantly picked Dazzle, and Veno ( I like veno but a venge works just as well) Decided again to go for mid game buying the sniper farm time so drafted into enigma and went offlane as veno knowing they were going to solo either the bristle or the centaur safe which turned out to be right. Removing QoP this time over storm Huskar was convinced he could beat a storm over the QoP better so I went with it.
Not really a fair one but http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1299919251 drafted around creating space for slark. Solo slark beats solo Cent, mid sniper beats OD (out ranges) and being dire could stack nearby jungle with shrapenel, and the two melee trilane ment a lich sky and Viper aggro would easily deal with them...a little one sided but there you have it.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1299919251
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1305268780 this game is one to watch, new draft I was trying but made the mistake of not removing the sniper which lost us in the end.
@hush I am telling him he drafted bad so he won't draft bad again. You telling him his draft was good is just misinformed high/normal skill garbage.
dota 2 became perfect in heros balance now they all boring its more about skills picks and team fights now :(
@Pleb
You should skip whatever you think is an insult from Havoc (honestly i don't think he's insulting you, but whatever) and try and look into the knowledge he is trying to impart to you.
Honestly axe countering dazzle is the only handy thing I can see from your draft. Disruptor or lion doesn't even come close to countering storm because as soon as he gets a bkb, they just blow up. (He didn't even need a bkb this game).
All your lanes in the early/mid/late game were basically lost with your picks. You might break even early game with ganks on storm via your supports, but that's about it. Even then, if the dazzle was good, he could just have a tp on him the whole time and tp in to shallow grave your storm when he sees him ganked.
You were heavily out drafted. Start thinking about your draft as a whole and how your team would synergize with each other rather than trying to just pick out counters for every hero you see getting picked.
Edit: Also please work on item choices...please
yea you can try 5 aoe heros and stick as 5 all game. sometime what look dumb idea work.
or go axe and cut their mid ! w a lich behind him
or go 5 ranged intel hero and rush dagons and get early kills
or go 5 pushing heros that is really the best dont get any cary just go like : furion , undying , axe , krobelus , rastha , and necro can remplace undying
Minute 26:47 was the first time detection was bought in that match against riki. That's reallllly bad. If your supports are not getting detection for some reason you should or else invisibility = invincibility
Pilot is right, sugar coating your failure isn't going to get as much success as a flat out, balls to the wall " you done fucked up". I have nothing against you personally or the people in your stack, you just need to be glaringly aware that where you think you did good is actually where you failed, fixing this will help you fix your attitude about your "useless supports", and also win you more.
Your draft mixes no strategy, no mid game, and maybe some late which honestly depended on how you played your early which didn't go well.
Mix supports, one for the carry and one for roaming, stacking, helping the offlane. Carry supports are defensive, but defensive supports suffer later where the offensive supports can take over. Dazzle is a mix of both and a super strong support.
Skywrath and Venge are examples or really good support duos, or Venomancer which a Shaman which can take team fights early and also push. Lion and Disruptor don't have much to do together unless you're really coordinated which you weren't from your original post (5 random guys).
Carries favor the right clickers at the moment so remember names like sniper, troll, juggernaut, and Slark. Don't draft heroes like Tiny, and CK unless you're building around them. If you pick a hard carry and a mid game offlane or mid to help you buy space for your position 1 while 4 of you fight them till your carry is at a point you can 5 man.
Axe and Lion were decent, but what are Axe, lion, disruptor going to do if tiny and SF are afk farming...they will just suffer and it makes no sense. If you had gone for say a QoP over the SF or even the SF but with decent items you could have bought a decent amount of space for tiny.
Axe call, disruptor ult, lion deals with stragglers, and you do requiem that would have worked but you opted for afk farming a skadi as a first item....
You need to have a "if all else fails" plan in mind or if you're drafting a 4 protect 1 you better make sure that's the way it's going. Something like...
If SF fails mid is there someone who can take his place to buy space for him to catch up in the jungle?
If Tiny fails can the mid pick up the slack to buy tiny space?
The answer to the first is no cause tiny was farming afk like you were. The answer to the second is no cause you went for Skadi first, you could have picked up the space for tiny if you had done decent items.
....dunno if you would prefer to take a 2-3k advice on the subject go ahead, I am telling you what I can see when wrong and what you need to do to fix it. This kinda attitude towards items, and picks effects your normal games as well so it's important you fix it.
you last picked tiny, without a wisp,he wasn't even mid and he didn't even get a dagger.
how is he supposed to kill people? with 0 attackspeed, without a blink or shadowblade.
and honestly skadi first might be situational, but not in this game where im sure you got fucked over by storm and sky with atos (bkb hint).
and lmao, you had 2 mekas, like srsly if you were in skype/teamspeak, thats even more ridiculous.
just look at this combo wombo, you only needed bkb and dagger (little more than skadi).
so axe jumps, calls 2-3 guys, you jump in with dagger, use bkb and use requiem right on top of the most important target (storm/troll), bam ez kill ez lyfe, and axe can always finish them off with culling blade, so still the skadi pickup is situational as i said.
Ok, ty every1 for advice, but not in any of my posts have I said that I'm good and that I'm not taking anyone's advice. I appreciate all of it. I got second blooded mid and Axe fed troll despite me telling him to go jungle, I even had to stack for myself and Tiny. The game was a total disaster. You're all right, I always go Skadi first and it's dumb as shit lol. I will stop. I just really like the tankiness but we already had a tank.
So should I have bought a mek, bkb, and blink? Or a BKB, euls, blink or something like that? I've always had difficulty itemizing SF.
When do I go first item Skadi? I thought it would be great to kite Troll and BB, but as a first item it was dumb.
1st item skadi is mostly bad on any heros except if ur farming godlike cuz the other team is busy sucking
it is but it depends how ur team is doing in the other lanes. you should try slark mid and just go mask of madness and gank . Its good to get a tread bottle skadi in 20 min except if u lost bot tower and top tower cuz their mid left to gank
if you wanna farm, get euls (spam razez ez camps ez gold), go dagger when you have a good initiation, or with euls, go shadowblade for solo pickoffs, bkb is a must most of the games, manta against silences/disjointable stuns, meka for early pushing, skadi to tank up after some core items, and there are many more items, besides i apparently suck with sf :P
no
sf needs mobility item
or sustain considering they had storm and skywrath bkb wouldn't be bad choice
I'm sorry, Havoc Badger, that I let you get to me and that I shifted this discussion in the wrong direction. Let's get back to you PLEB.
Referring to PLEB's second game, he posted yesterday (the VOID game).
It's again not just the picks, which determined the loss. At least not in general. It Depends of course wether your teammates have experience with their heroes or not. I got myself into such a situation yesterday as I was talked into pickin OD vs storm mid by a stranger. I had a bad feeling from the start, because I dont know OD very well. It was horrible.
An example for a good counter-pick to your team is Ember being a Counter to strong magical dmg dealers, like Lina. While you had the option to still pick a hero, who can detect Riki easily like a Zeus or rotate Axe to jungle and pick Bounty Hunter or Slardar. But still, Lina can influence the game immensly.. But your Lina was clearly overwhelmed playing mid. So that is part of your team's gameplay again. Then your team got the firstblood, obviously took the void-victory for granted and forgot that lina mid is actually your main while void farms. On top of that you gave Riki a free pass by not having any truesight (dust or silence would just get purged or removed by manta). No Wonder People where frustrated by the end of the round.
Once again I have to say that in general it was not the picks, which decided both games. It is the bad execution / decision making. In that skill bracket the win is decided by 30% picks/bans at best. If you want to play with a good routine With a team, you need to find out, where you can find your individual strong synergies(=picks) and what kind of heros/spells counter these special synergies(=bans). So, I am not sure, what I can help you with. If you ask for advice as a captain picking and banning, let me say this: it takes thousands of games to become a good captain. Just keep going and collect more experience and not only through playing. There are several helpful guides/blogs on the internet, plus replays and advice from Professional players. Just invest some time on Google or for example steam dota 2 guides (always Keeping in mind that pro games of course are a huge difference to pub games).
I hope this makes any sense to you. Good Luck!
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So me and 4 other random friends went into CM against this team and we got destroyed. I found out how bad some of these guys were. Like our Disruptor couldn't even glimpse or something and our Lion refused to finger. We lost our trilane because the supports sat there all game and didn't stack anything for Tiny. I just wanna know how good our draft was, what bans could've occurred and how they drafted in comparison. I honestly think we outdrafted them HARD and if we played like 1.5k scrubs we could've won.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1305961956