The problem is you don't know if axe is going offlane or jungle at the start. Sometimes you can figure it out based on their picks but not always.
Then though you need to pick ranged heroes with slows/disables because axe is extremely hard to kill and survive for a melee early when counter helix does so much freakin damage. But a support like a lion + any ranged carry is probably best equipped to handle him.
Necro is a natural counter to Axe at most stages of the game (a good blink timing on Axe can change this for a few minutes)
If axe is cutting your creeps, sometimes that means he's standing in one spot for a while. Mirana can really punish that.
techies can put mines where he wil be coming through, but be ready to get reported by him, he will hate you.
Don't pick 2 melee safelane that is just asking for an creep skipping axe. Axe will never skip when there is a jungler or a dual range lane, at least a smart one.
@YNIT how could anyone think that I meant 4 heroes, really?
WD - just level maledict and autoattack
Jakiro - 1+3 is a lot of damage, thats lvl2 though
If Axe is solo offlane, go solo safe Drow... Free farm, free kills. Viper also
You can't just theory craft about how to get rid of an Axe creep skipping. Here's what I mostly do...
If I can't skip creeps then I will pull them into the jungle and farm them, if the safe lane wants to kill me then they will have to come far out of their tower to get me out of the jungle and pulling creeps.
When I play offlane I usually have a stick, soul ring, tranquils with 2-3 levels of battle hunger, if the supports come to grab me away from their carry and the tower they will die 85% of the time (unless mid rotates) and then you can continue pulling into the jungle until I am six then I will dive their carry.
...hard to actually put into writing how it works but much like the meepo, if you want a good Axe game pick 4-5th, so very little to counter. Also the irony that the best hero to stop Axe is also countered by Axe.
Pick dazzle, heal the wave Axe is skipping, using first skill when you want to actually go in for a kill.
well lane is pretty much f if undying was with axe ;p pretty much ownage but if his alone easy just get a slow poison type will piss him off hard
Omniknight is garbage vs Axe I have 80+% win rate against him during that Omni picking phase people went through after action slacks told everyone to pick Omni.
Axe armor, HP, Blademail > Purification
Axe Spin, Call, Dunk > Repel
Axe Hunger, Call, Dunk > Guardian Angel.
There are very few cases where an omni will come out on top, with the exception of an overly fed core Omni with a ton of items. Axe can get kited easily and this is best done with heroes like Shadow demon, Viper, Venomancer and other obvious similar picks.
....funnily enough I have found PA, and troll to be the biggest bane to a solid Axe game.
lol, you talkin bout 1v1 omni vs axe... ofc axe win.
dota is a Team game for a reason.
i think axe is only annoying in the beginning, if you can kill him early (2 man rape) he is useless. Axe is one of that heroes who performs extremely bad when he is behind in xp or farm or both.
Does it look like my winrates vs Omni are in 1v1's? In fact Omni would probably win a 1v1 vs an Axe due to spins being the only real source of damage output from axe (aka right clicks are weak and battle hunger can be repelled).
Axe is strong all game long and doesn't fall of but phases from solo killer to team fight initiator. It should be fairly infrequent that an Axe is left severely underleveled or farmed as he has access to lanes, ancients (with Vanguard or level 9), and the entire jungle from level 1.
Omni can be decent but can't really do much vs an Axe without some serious help from team mates and even then Axe should not be going alone vs 3-4 at a later stage of the game without his team anyways. Omni level 1 simply adds a tangoes worth of damage to a lane where Axe gets another melee support vs potentially a melee carry so it's win win for Axe and if you think healing creeps somehow puts Axe off then consider you're burning valuable mana early on to simply do, like I said, a tango or two of damage to axe who can simply walk it off till the next creep wave (with tranquils).
if you don't have a ranged hero that can really cause him problems, a lot of melee heroes can just sit at the tower with stout + tangos (maybe 2 sets, depends on the hero) + salve and run around it and pick up a fair amount of CS without ever getting in too much danger. Rushing an item like helm of iron will or RoH (or bottle, again it depends on the hero) will keep them healthy, picking up QB when you can in order to miss as few last hits under the tower as possible.
No they can't dude, you will miss a ton of cs if they're on your tower unless you also have qb and you'll take a shitload of dmg. Killing creeps under tower with no creeps of your own just doesn't work out well, plus you're very vulnerable, axe can walk up behind and hunger you.
Anything that can farm under tower easily.
2 Range heroes.
Mana burn for Dazzle.
For real when they pull this shit just farm under your tower. Hes not getting ahead if u can 4/4 CS under tower. Hes actually hurting himself more than helping.
"Anything that can farm under tower easily."
Which heroes farm under tower easily? I have trouble with most. Maybe a void with qb and pms?
pick bristleback and at 6 have 2x quills 3x bristleback and 1x ult. creeps or axe cant touch you
@Timberwolf
"No they can't dude, you will miss a ton of cs if they're on your tower unless you also have qb and you'll take a shitload of dmg."
you talk like you haven't actually played more than 10 games. People wonder why they play hundreds of games and still suck and this is why. Plenty of melee heroes have solid base damage, and while you will certainly miss creeps under the tower (especially with low base damage heroes, especially without QB), you should still get at least 3 on most waves. That is a LOT better than getting 0, which is what you get if you don't get to your tower or try to fight axe..
And no you don't get low either. If you have bought stout and sufficient regen, you can very easily run around the tower (with creep aggro) and get very few hits on yourself, most of which is negated by stout shield and the rest is covered by your consumables, and later on, RoH/helm/bottle. Its harder for range heroes that generally have lower armor, but more importantly they don't get the full benefit of stout shield.
You should practice last hitting under the tower, I don't play a lot so its not something I excel in, but a lot of better players know if they need to attack just once or twice to get the last hit.
There are a lot of heroes that can hit without a QB.
I think PA + Omni is decent against Axe to an extent but not enough to say with utter certainty that "this one is in the bag". Axe will either go for maxing call or battle hunger depending on the lane, Omni + PA forces a composite of both due to the nature of the lane which may not be ideal for him.
Dagger or repel removes battle hunger and any call damage can be healed up. I don't think you would win the lane but would at least get enough farm on the PA to bring down Axe once you hit a higher level. However, this is dependent on Omni not getting caught by Axe which means PA will probably have to take last hits via dagger till the creeps are under tower to avoid being singled out.
You just need the carry to farm under tower, run at axe with supports (hopefully ranged supports) and then join in with the carry when you do so.
Most duos of supports can counter axe+1 creepcutting, but a full on axe-tri cutting creeps, your best bet might be to sit under your tower and farm there, and stab out at them when you´re strong enough. Or bait them in under your trees.
Most Axe trilanes won't even cut creeps as that is reserved for a solo or dual lane looking to lower the lane enough to eventually dive them. An Axe aggro trilane for the most part (Axe, Dazzle, Wisp or Lich) will probably be diving from level 2-3 so your best bet against an Axe try is honestly just to abandon the lane except for maybe one. Have the supports rotate otherwise all of you will die under the tower.
Most carries can farm quite well under the tower and the supports can "peck" at the Axe till he kind of becomes caught in the cross fire and gets killed eventually but...... even then a good Axe player usually has ways of getting around this as well. So air on the side of caution and don't do anything stupid or you'll pay the price.
"pick bristleback and at 6 have 2x quills 3x bristleback and 1x ult. creeps or axe cant touch you"
lol safelane bristle ok we'll see how well that flies in my pub matches.
I still have a huge problem with people saying it's so easy to just farm under tower. It's not that easy. T1 towers have a range in their dmg, 100-120, melee creeps have 2 armor for about 10% dmg reduction and 550 hp so a tower could take anywhere from 6 or 7 hits and could leave the creep with as little as 10 hp left or as much as 100. So it's kind of a guess when your hero is hitting for like 50 after armor reductions. I'm not saying I can't get half the hits I'm just saying it's not automatic and much harder than just being in the lane vs enemys trying to deny imo.
Plus you don't always know axe is coming and buy a stout shield at level 1. If you burn all your gold on other stuff and you're under the tower, hello, there go all your tangoes on like 2 waves and you expose yourself running to side shop to get a shield or wait a long time for the courier to bring you a shield. Solution is probably stockpile some g for shield then decide once you see what axe is doing.
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Something that's been happening in my game lately.
Aggro axe can control the early game in my mmr.
I figured sending the mid to gank would work, and it does, however it allows the other mid to free-farm. The more heroes you commit to stopping him, the more free-farm the other heroes get.
I just want to hear the opinion of someone who is better than me (most people here).
Also, shout out to havoc's offlane axe build.