Both have their weaknesses.
You just don't pick slows vs a Lycan, you go serious disables.
If they go np, just counter pick with several heroes, pick your own pushers/teles (Tinker/Io maybe?).
Rat dota is easy to play and counter.
Also learn to pay attention to the map...
Like every 3-5 seconds.
Bane eats Lycan nicely, just win before he builds bkb or turtle up.
As lycan player I can say that lycan is complete garbage at lanestage and can't jungle from lvl 1 being on full hp - fuck him hard until he get his lvl 6 and vlads and don't let him rosh, and you will be fine. Also he can be countered with axe, batrider, naga, even pudge lol - theirs disables are disaster. Or if you don't want to win continue whining about stupid icefrog and imba heroes.
"Sweet sweet tears..... (played most broken prepatch hero and QQ's about pushers)"
Is that a reference to me playing Earth Spirit? You know since I still play him after patch and all as much as I did prior. In fact I played Ember SPirit more pre 6.80 before everyone hopped on the gravy train.
Guess I should expect a comment like that from you since your top most played 8 is all pretty vanilla and if your tracking your not good at Earth spirit pre or post patch.
how hard is earth spirit after the nerf?
will the 6.81 buff (35s -> 30s stones) change anything?
what style should I use on midnight locks?
6.81 is a big help honestly it was all I could ask for ES buffs. I would like to see a Agh Scepter in some form or stone remnants respawn with you after death.
Problem with ES is tons of heroes are way easier in general to play but I enjoy the reward of success when it comes for doing something more difficult.
I have learn a big lesson playin nature prophet, keep afk farming and never help to retard because you lose monies.
The effort required to counter it is far far greater than the difficulty of doing it.
Lycan and Furion are the equivalent of leveling 1-10 in World of Warcraft.
You winrate with earth took quite a hit (15% difference) post patch. QQ thread wanting more buffs on an OP hero that you used to barely eek out a desired winrate while he was broken; while at the same time hoping for more nerfs on fairly simple to counter heroes as long as your not a total retard and have coordination
The difference between my top played and yours is that mine were not overplayed because they were broken and I was in dire need of a win rate or rating boost. Also my top played is basically most of the heroes as I have played a lot of DotA while your is basically main
*top played from you is earth and ember.......ok then.
Lycan is fun look my last games.
But look my last drow games 16-1-10 (i randomed it). Didnd't even now we could carry as much with drow.
I feel that Earth Spirit is a hero that's a pretty good counter to NP though, so I don't really see the problem.
Lycan needs to be ganked and controlled. If your team doesn't have the skills composition or the ability to do that, then you can't beat him
I beat Lycan pickers all the time Phoenix. I think my last 10 Phoenix games probably had a Lycan in it and lost.
"Lycan and Furion are the equivalent of leveling 1-10 in World of Warcraft." No wonder why most people suck big time at playinng furion, when they think you should play him that way. The moment you skill tp, you should be looking for killls around the map.
Regardless, you don't even have to play furion as a split pusher because you can contribute a lot in team fights and ganks with or without big items. Nevertheless, many players seem to forget about the fact that furion has a global tp, and a lot of furion players tend to skip the tp scroll for no particularly reason.
Honestly, i think that the best way to nerf lycan would be changing his ult.
What's broken about this hero is he can escape most ganks with ease cause of built-in haste, and if your team doesn't have any disables, even sheep stick won't help you. IMO, instead of being a flat out haste, make it a speed increase like 30%. That way he can be slowed, and hex will actually work on him.
I mean I understand Lycan but Furion? Seriously? Just pick Storm and watch him cry all chat.
I tried playing against an NP in trash tier MM, and it was hell, why?!?! Maybe because no one would buy some kind of true sight vision, and I don't think they expect me being with them all day, having those wards and dusts..
Just get some true sight vision.
Bu-bu-but, NP is so weak ;_;. Lycan is too farm dependant and cant do shit without his ultimate. So what are you scared of? That a small little treeman will appear and win everygame?
Lycan so stupid.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/622680746
I spend first 15 minutes in radiant jungle hunting lycan as dark seer. 0-3 score at 15 mins no boots.
Still at the end of the game he is fat as shit. No way to shut him down once he hits level 6. That haste is too op.
What can a dark seer do to Lycan anyway? Ion shell him too death? dark seer is the wrong hero to gank Lycan in the jungle.
Also if you can't "summon the will too defend your top tower", then it is your own fault. I stomp as lycan often, but when I do lose it is because the enemy makes an effort to shut me down. Also tp scrolls work a charm and stuns are a must.
I did shut him down till he hit level 6. Delayed his core by a long while. But still little difference it made.
@HavocBadger
1. I played Earth and Ember both right away of them launching aka in before people learned from CM pros how to play Ember properly. If you watched any of my games I typically was stuck offlane Ember not the standard mid or safelane.
2. You have not a single game of Earth Spirit on you so your just like every other person claiming it is easy with no proof to back up it being easy for you. Same thing for Ember shocker 1 game and you sucked. Thank god though you can play heroes going 1vsjungle.
3. Like seriously do you look at your most played heroes you honestly think any of those are difficult? Let alone the fact it appears if your playing your grouped.
Most played heroes by you in 6.8 = Terrorblade, Axe, Furion I rest my case on you.
Lastly, HavocBadger lets call this the nail in the coffin.
Between you and the people you group and party games with here are your earth spirit stats:
Pre-Nerf:
KDA = .15 Kills/g = 0 Deaths/g = 13 Assists/g = 2
All-Time:
KDA = 1.02 Kills/g = .84 Deaths/g = 7.84 Assists/g = 6.7
Overall All-Time Earth Spirit Record 2 wins and 4 losses
7 friends and including yourself this is your let's say social groups abilities at Earth Spirit....
SORRY
1. I played Earth and Ember both right away of them launching aka in before people learned from CM pros how to play Ember properly. If you watched any of my games I typically was stuck offlane Ember not the standard mid or safelane.
Sure, both were equally broken at launch and historically earth wasn't patched quite as quickly and I am glad you managed to milk it to inflate your depressing win rate and rating.
2. You have not a single game of Earth Spirit on you so your just like every other person claiming it is easy with no proof to back up it being easy for you. Same thing for Ember shocker 1 game and you sucked. Thank god though you can play heroes going 1vsjungle.
I have actually played him a few times and find him not a terrible hero to play but like a couple of others would require me to play him almost exclusively and I just don't think I want to do that.
3. Like seriously do you look at your most played heroes you honestly think any of those are difficult? Let alone the fact it appears if your playing your grouped.
No, cause dota2 heroes aren't hard for me to play. I think none of the heroes in dota2 are particularly hard to play some simply require more practice than others. Are you implying that any of your top are harder to play than mine? No cause all heroes are almost as equally easy, or hard as the others.
Most played heroes by you in 6.8 = Terrorblade, Axe, Furion I rest my case on you.
Played Axe and Furion since I started playing this game 2 years ago, are you saying that for two years they have been broken heroes Axe:http://dotabuff.com/matches/22785190
NP:http://dotabuff.com/matches/20769252
...and terror was only out in 6.8 so I don't see how I could have played him before? Plus I play the heroe as a core support so again, your argument is weak and based of biased anger towards a clearly better player.
Between you and the people you group and party games with here are your earth spirit stats:
Again, a weak argument cause as I have previously stated during the time of the earth spirit phase not many of my friends were interested in playing there hero and as well it was one of the most quickly picked so I am guessing some of them never got the chance. Are you implying that playing earth spirit pre patch almost exclusively is something to be merited?
My guess is that playing earth spirit doesn't seem to allow you to counter heroes like lycan and natures which is understandable (though knowing earths skills I can think of a ton of ways so.....) cause they're pushers.
I play a lot of dota and a lot of heroes while you basically only play two rendering your effort to pull stats almost completely invalid. Don't be mad at heroes just because you and people in your bracket lack the skill to counter them.
I repeat:
Lastly, HavocBadger lets call this the nail in the coffin.
Between you and the people you group and party games with here are your earth spirit stats:
Pre-Nerf:
KDA = .15 Kills/g = 0 Deaths/g = 13 Assists/g = 2
All-Time:
KDA = 1.02 Kills/g = .84 Deaths/g = 7.84 Assists/g = 6.7
Overall All-Time Earth Spirit Record 2 wins and 4 losses
7 friends and including yourself this is your let's say social groups abilities at Earth Spirit....
Stats do not lie. In fact I tell you what if you play 5 games as earth spirit and let's see how you do since it is in fact so easy.
I think Lycan is fine after 6.81.
Invoker and Furion- I'd like to see their attack ranges shortened to 500.
Witch Doctor needs to be removed from the game entirely.
As for Earth Spirit abusing, well done, I think the hero did take much skill to play with even when he was extremely powerful, and that hasn't changed.
So shall I compare stats with heroes you don't play? You're obviously mad that you aren't good enough to beat NP players and are now comparing a hero you play exclusively with one I don't play at all in a desperate attempt to flaunt skill and it's kind of pathetic.
Wishing you best of luck with your two hero main.
I repeat:
Lastly, HavocBadger lets call this the nail in the coffin.
Between you and the people you group and party games with here are your earth spirit stats:
Pre-Nerf:
KDA = .15 Kills/g = 0 Deaths/g = 13 Assists/g = 2
All-Time:
KDA = 1.02 Kills/g = .84 Deaths/g = 7.84 Assists/g = 6.7
Overall All-Time Earth Spirit Record 2 wins and 4 losses
7 friends and including yourself this is your let's say social groups abilities at Earth Spirit....
Stats do not lie. In fact I tell you what if you play 5 games as earth spirit and let's see how you do since it is in fact so easy.
Your the one claiming ES was the most broken hero pre patch if that was true more people would have played it and done well. Was he broke yeah he was but he still took enough effort and ability that the dumbest of newbs didn't give up playing Furion to learn him.
Tell you what you pick a hero your good at I will do 5 games of that solo queing and you gimme 5 games of your earth spirit solo queing.. Please tell me your up for this.
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Please do not speak or open your mouth about having success. These heroes are designed to reward even the dumbest of mouth breathers.
Eagerly waiting for 6.81....