I found it quite interesting how stupid pub builds have started entering competitive meta over the past 2 months. Even in inhouses people are drafting heroes like Dazzle, Sniper, Tinker, KOTL, Naga Siren (old carry build not meracle build), and even Drow go drafted in one game.
Even though some may argue that some of these heroes (like KOTL and Dazzle) were already competitive tier, you really didn't see these heroes until recently. They were rarely picked in TI3 if at all and before/after TI3 they were also rare picks.
I think it's just that people are experimenting now with the big meta changes.
I liked jungle axe the way ake used him.
He basically acted like a Harpy to harass mid. He would move in, Battle hunger the bat, and leave. Invoker would keep him zoned out and make sure he couldn't get a last hit.
Worked very well... Fata was sad.
No Akke did not "jungle axe" he attempted to get to level 2 before laning. He failed to get even his 2nd level because CM stole the xp from him.
Because Akke is pro he immediately left the jungle and went mid. This is NOTHING like jungle axe. This was a dual mid with axe occasionally picking up a bit of extra from a jungle camp when they had forced FATA's bat out of the lane.
If pubs left the jungle with axe and began laning at LEVEL 2!!! like Akke was planning to do that would be fine. But they do not; they remain afk jungling until they have a vanguard and the game is lost.
The jungling portion of Akke's game lasted about 1 minute of game time and frankly failed during that 1 minute.
So what relentless is saying is he didn't lvl 1 axe and stay there for 20 minutes of the game spinning and yelling at neutral creeps. He's a roam/gank axe!
axe in my pubs always do that... go mid win the lane for midder (more often ruin my mid lane since im the opponent :D) and leave for some jungle then comes back xd etc
I just feel it important to take every opportunity to discourage ppl from jungling with axe. I won't stand for you calling Akke a jungle axe. He does not deserve such insults.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
Did anybody else notice how Axe's winrate is now around 52%?
It'll be interesting to see how it's affected after this match.
Relentless isn't even right.
I went and rewatched the VOD and Axe did get level 2 in the jungle. He did so off the second hard camp spawn at 1 minute. That was also the ONLY camp CM contested him on.
CMs harass didn't stop him from it getting his level 2.
CM only stole 29 gold from him and half the xp of a single hard camp.
He then moved to the medium camp and killed it before rotating mid for harass, rune check, and followed that up with some direside jungle and first blood.
Axe spent less than a combined 60-70 seconds in "mid lane" and was only sapping xp for about 30 seconds while he was close enough to land battle hunger and get his team first blood. In fact Akke made a point of staying away from invokers XP before killing batrider twice.
Did you even watch the game relentless?
Relentless, I believe that jungle axe is really good, but like you said, must be roaming/harassing the other lanes for it to take full potential. Farming in the jungle until level 12 won't help the team at all.
@OP KOTL was picked up quite a bit in the months before TI3, around the time of the group qualifiers, but lost popularity as OD and some other heroes quickly gained popularity.
he is 30 years old
he is 2500 rated in Dota 2
he "analyzes" and collects information in every match for free on the internet and does it poorly
he takes his "job" very seriously
he does it because it is the only exercise in his pathetic life
he accuses good players he doesn't like because whenever he gets upset he has an asthma attack
he will never have a real job
he will never move out of his parent's house
he will never be at a healthy weight
he will never know how to cook anything besides a hot pocket
he will never have a girlfriend
he will never have any friends
he doesnt play Dota 2
he stopped playing when he found out he wasnt 5k for 2 months
he lies a lot
he claims he worked at NASA
Concede you either fundamentally misunderstand my objections to jungle axe or you are being deliberately obtuse. What Akke did was nothing like "jungle axe" and no matter how many times you insist on playing a semantic game you will not change the fact that Akke played his early game entirely for the purpose of support to the mid lane.
Soycan and I'm sure nearly everyone clearly understands that AKke was in a roaming/mid lane position taking some extra xp and farm from the jungle. If you want to call that "jungle axe" you can define it however you want. No one can prevent you from remaining confused about the terminology. I hope that this game and this thread will lead to far more roaming by axe players and far less afk vs neutrals.
On a totally unrelated topic this is the most clear example I have seen yet of yajirobe relapsing into his old schizoid habit of talking to himself. In this he has confirmed his identify and clarified the specific nature of his brand of psychological disorder.
^ Not really, wave and him are just in a love/hate relationship that both of them are unwilling to admit.
except ake was able to more xp from the jungle faster than any other "support". He got at least half his XP from the jungle if not closer to 3/4th of it, and he was level 7 when invoker mid was level 8.
no other "roaming mid support" could have done that, except maybe enigma or furion, cause they are junglers.
The % of xp Axe obtained from various sources is irrelevant. Of course if you want to be technical about it he gains his level 3 from mid lane creeps, takes 1 jungle camp then gets a massive 520 xp for solo xp kill on then level 5 batrider with hunger. That immediately jumps him to level 4 and well on his way to level 5. At this point over half of his xp comes from mid lane.
At 6 to 7 min Axe again takes a large xp gain from mid lane creeps and the 2nd kill on batrider. He reachs level 7 quickly because he is mid. It has a small bonus contribution from the 2 and half jungle camps of xp he got. As a % of his xp at level 7... the jungle is really about 30%.
But as I said, that is irrelevant. Akke is playing axe as a roaming hero supporting the mid lane. In pubs "jungle axe" often means afk hitting neutrals until axe has vanguard and tranquils... and typically lanes have been lost. The objective of roaming supports is to cause the lanes to win by pressuring and killing heroes. The objective of a jungle hero is to farm the jungle for their own xp and gold. There is some crossover between these roles, but axe is an excellent roaming hero and slow jungler. Also many roaming supports with some jungling capability could achieve the same xp/gold results as Axe did if they also came mid 3 times to share xp by level 4 and got a solo kill on a level 5 hero.
Actually I did jungle Axe a couple days ago in a lobby game...
1:00-2:00 I started in the jungle till about level 2
2:00-3:00 Managed to tap a FB mid with Invoker. Cold-snap + Battle Hunger.
3:00-4:00 Got level 4 and tranquils and went onto top lane.
4:00-6:00 Drop two people in the top trilane but lose two ourselves.
6:00-7:00 Go back mid and get another kill on mid with Invoker and Visage.
7:00-9:00 Finishing up my force staff and some smoke/TP/wards etc.
9:00-12:00 I have my force staff and tranquils and a couple other small items and we are dominating.
** Sadly we never got to finish as we had to step out of the friendly lobby game into an AD2L game. The game went on about 30 minutes and I was sat at 8-3 25 mins in. Due to the need to finish early we recklessly kept pushing mid and I ended up 8-6 and called it a forfeit.
Axe is situational and shouldn't farm the jungle as long as others. I would suggest some tips...
4-5 Minutes in the jungle = Tranquils and stout + small consumables. Use this to gank mid as it is the closest lanes.
I would suggest lane ganking but make sure you are constantly swinging through the jungle so you get farm + deny enemy jungle farm. Do not max Helix or Call.
3-2-1-2-2-6 is what makes Axe the most effective in the early stages where you have an advantage.
Would suggest Vanguard if against melee/range damage and early blink/casual cloak if against heavy nukers/casters.
It is my opinion that for the majority of times that blademail is misused on axe and should be avoided for + regen or hitpoints.
It wasn't really a jungling axe, he had two kills on mid Batrider by 8 min mark and he had used Battle Hunger on him numerous times. It was kind of like seeing dual mid with Lich but instead it was Axe.
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most enjoyable to watch.
and he went vanguard/tranquils... (s4 used invoker, so ake was using bottle and rune control for mana)
So pub, much wow.