General DiscussionItem build for Undying

try to take medallion/halberd/force/pipe

I usually build the standard arcanes, wand and mek, then usually followed by a Pipe (building the hood first), and then vlads using the ring of basilius I pick up early game. I sometimes build vanguard to help him tank up a bit, seeing as you need to be in the middle of fights to keep your ultimate aura on people. After this, if the game is going well, I build an AC, as it synergises immensly with plague aura. After this if the game still isn't over I'd buy a Shivas.
In other words I build him to be the main aura carrier for the team :P

If you can build it bloodstone is great because idk why I win games with Undying with Bloodstone.

If you manage to snowball early bloodstone is a good choice as his spells cost tons of mana. so mana pool and regen items are essential. shiva or scythe would be good choices aswell.

I do normally get the basilus too but vlads seems like a bad choice as undy isn't exactly a right click hero, he don't do much attacking so maybe vlads is a bit of a waste of gold?

Medallion sounds cool, pipe has been bought before and is nice, I normally stop at the hood these days as I want something else, force staff seems a little pointless to me, (not pointless because FS OP but, yeah, seems pointless for undy), AC sounds good but he's not exactly the best farmer, (or maybe that's just me being bad), so maybe too expensive, bloodstone sounds like a good choice as well considering the parts needed will be mighty useful too.

Cheers guys, some good food for thought...and not a single troll post, wtf! Gratz to you all!

I wouldn't consider vlads to be a waste of gold, it frees up a space for your main carry (if they are melee) so they don't have to buy a life steal item, because they benefit from the aura (if they are a ranged carry then don't bother building vlads because ranged heros don't get the lifesteal) and the armour and mana regen components aren't too bad either.
Obviously AC is a situational item and should only be gotten if you have the gold to spend, if it's unlikely you'll reach an AC then prioritise shivas

(if they are a ranged carry then don't bother building vlads because ranged heros don't get the lifesteal) > in mid/late game ( when vlads should be made) it gives nice damage boost.

On topic.: arcane, urn (moc) and wand. After that make hood or go into pipe ( if they got right clicker then don't), better save for bm and add drum somewhere here

In late, you can make rod or necro 3, and at someultra late game go into ac, shiva or aghanim. It is simply goodlike, if you can make it on him

i´m not a "pro"player but i really like undying solo offlane... im goin nearly all games for a fast urn... then arcane.... after this sometimes hood/pipe sometimes vanguard sometimes blademail... depends on the enemy´s
lategame i go for vlads if your team needs some lifeleech or/and heart but the game often already won.
against a trilane (on my level 3,6k) i go for one point in decay and max tomb. it does nearly no dmg but reduce their stats.... as soon as they got 3-4 stacks and feel save i drop the tomb and kill 1 or 2. try to hit at least 2 enemys with on decay

in your case i would skip basher and atos... (but atos makes sense... a bit... on paper, never tried it, i think its nice against one enemy but as undying you want to go up against more enemys;)

i would add orb of venoooooooooooom and heavens halberd and maybe force to help your teammates

force gives you good combo with tomb(force enemies to zombies) and can help you mates, halberd is just overpowered(my last game i won just because 2 halberds), medallion - combo with tomb, fast roshan, orb of venom is good for aggression, fast vanguard is good choice too(artstyle dota), basher is bad because undying isn't autoattacker, radiance - awesome combo with ulti, but very expensive for offlane, heart is nice for any str hero, s'n'y is not bad choice(but as for me, it is too expensive), as for me shivas is better for dirge than AC

It's funny how when you ask a question like how to play a support or hero that requires skill none of the usual 5K people show up to make rude comments or shit talk. Guess its just not in them to support.

Undying is a hero that that gets stronger as a fight wears on. With every 4 seconds you have the ability to add to your strength while taking that of your opponents and in clumped team fights this can be accelerated.

Undying is a massively team fight oriented hero and doesn't excel in straight up 1v1 fights and usually needs to get a couple decays' off in order to provide the starting point for an initiation. Your tombstone (provided it is placed right and isn't killed) is probably the best team fight you have on you and dropping that bad boy may not instantly change a fight like warlocks or enigmas ult but about 10 seconds into the fight panic does usually hit with not being able to move and getting swamped by zombies.

Again, placing that tombstone in a good position is crucial. Zombies stack. Heals will improve, slows will improve and allow you to target decays and right click them (which will hurt due to strength stacks) as they try and run.

Focus on durability. You need to survive a whack early on. You need to be able to live past the first 5 seconds in a teamfight if you do that you become harder and harder to kill in the fight and they will be forced to back off and run which is where undying excels with his tombstone. You can't really run from zombies you can only fight them off as you back off giving the team time to catch them up.

Sorry I wish I had fancy builds to tell you but the best build I feel is the simplest.

Sources.

Pub Undying - http://dotabuff.com/players/90503334/matches?hero=undying&game_mode=&match_type=real
OA Tournaments Undying - http://dotabuff.com/players/90503334/matches?hero=undying&game_mode=&match_type=unreal

^ Very useful information. I'll follow it next time I play Undying. I'm normally successful with him, but don't pick him that often because what my team normally lacks are hard disables, which Undying comes without.

Honestly, I feel that if you get a fast arcane, wand and mek, you should actually try to wrap the game up before you can farm any better items. You are at your strongest in the midgame teamfigthts when the enemy isn't too farmed so they FEEL it when they have a triple decay debuff stack + the damage amplification aura from your ulti, but in general, you want durability and manapool plus manaregen, because you need to spam your spells and you'll be focused during the fights.

Undying is one of those really flexible item heroes because everything benefits him. He needs tanky items, mana items, utility items. As long as you aren't building battlefury I don't think you can build anything bad on him.

Undying is one of my favorite situational heroes. Its very important to pick Undying with the right line-up. If fights are going to be over in a few seconds, then UD will not be a good choice. If fights are going to spread out over a large area with high ms heroes then UD will not be a good choice. But if there are tanky heroes that like to stand and deliver, man fight... that is the sort of game where you want to pick UD. When there are big teamfight ults... that is a good game to pick UD.

Items for UD are very situational, but if you can manage it the strongest build is Vlads + Aghs. It stacks up to nearly 50% dmg amp on all physical and also tons of magic dmg for your entire team. However usually you don't get enough farm for that have to settle from something cheaper.

Urn and Medallion are both very good and cheap. Mech is good if your team fights together, Vanguard or Rod of Atos is better if they want to split push and farm. Pipe is very good if you face big teamfight magic dmg... if not its not worth it. Super late game AC is much better choice than heart.

You probably have to get Arcane boots. Although UD is particularly good at using treads if some other supports are getting arcanes for you or you have a kotl or cm to give you extra mana. Bottle is also a great choice, although I don't prefer it myself because mid is usually taking the runes.

Blademail is also very good for UD. You can easily take 1000 dmg in burst on a bmail then heal it back. UD can burst heal himself for about 900 hp in 1 second with a good decay and soul rip.

Since Necro 3 was so OP in 6.79 I also got that a lot, it may not be as good a choice now, but it does synergize well with zombies so they attack invis units and also the aura will give them bonuses. Drums are also very good. Be sure to remember to hit the drums when you have plenty of zombies up.

If the game goes late and you are having trouble staying alive long enough against farmed carries ghost and heaven's halbard are very helpful.

Oh, also UD makes very good use of soul ring. But you have to be careful about when to use it. Don't get yourself low enough to be nuked down. But you can use soul ring to be more aggressive early and with a few decay stacks bait ppl into attacking you because you appear to be low while actually having more hp than they do. You already know that I'm sure, but it looks like you have not taken advantage of soul ring to augment it.

All good points, cheers gents, and no Relentless, I have never built soul ring on him, but then, I haven't really experimented with item builds at all, it's generally been, basi, wand, arcanes, mek and a.n.other item.

It seems the vlads is a good choice, (apparently I misunderstood how it works, so noob, such tard, wow etc), so maybe that will be in the next game I play, drums sounds cool, especially with the zombies, lol.

Positioning of the tombstone I think I'm improving on and the fact you got to get at' em early doors as well, no point sitting back when you have 900 health to their 350 after a few decays... :D

Lot's of good ideas, thank you all.

And still no troll/fu noob posts, wow, is this community finally growing up a bit?

Don't pin your hopes on that too much ;-)

Its because it isn't a MMR or carry/mid thread.

@ ne|Monkeh

So far everyone's been pleasant lately. That might change if Blunt or Wave was posting on here ;)

Yes Relentless is right, try out an early soul ring. You can still buy that ring of bas. early, but then maybe disassemble into a soul ring a little later, or just skip the ring of bas. Your call! Soul ring is king early game IMO

dont be so hard on yourself monkeh. ive played like 2300 games and have only recently started thinking outside the box. honestly the best way to go about it is in que times, grab a spare book, right down a hero and then right down your interpretation of the hero, like what their role is. its all well and good to sit their and in your head say oh this what i have to do this game etc but when you take the time to sit down and really think about what you need to do and how to do it you can really improve upon general positioning within the game etc.

the same goes for items. you need to think how do i fight and what are the best items for me, and who are my opponents? idk thats my 2 cents worth, if you're interested in learning a hero more deeply maybe try writing about him and then adding to it after the game, how did it go, was my positioning right most the time etc, do a self evaluation before waiting for the next game to pop.

i generally have 2 item paths for dirge;
1) soul ring, treads, mek (if noone else is building) hood and then depending on game necro or shivas. shivas if we need the attack slow + nuke vs their carries or necro if we need the push to just get over the line.

2) is when you have fun in lane and demolish and then just go straight for that bloodstone into AC or necro but if dirge can get bloodstone ~16 mins then it means he probably destroyed whatever lane he was in and it wont get past 20-25 min game depending on other lanes/ early teamfights

To me soul ring is a must, so you can spam decay until they have like 400 max hp and place a tomb for easy kills
Arcane boots its the next item and after that its situational, but I always build him an item that gives armor since he doesnt have any;
mekans, blade mail, shivas, and the forgotten VEIL OF DISCORD (wich is insanely good on him +armor +stats +magic amp)
If you get a lot of kills, radiance is another good item, and of course scythe of vyse

My games with him:
http://dotabuff.com/players/109488687/matches?hero=undying&game_mode=&match_type=real

> Band

Halberds don't share a CD?

radiance obviously

@SIKAMIKANICO

I will agree you have done some very good undying plays but I will have to be honest here. That build would only be viable on SEA or SA servers. Due to the player nature of those areas excessive farming and long game durations are encouraged and not punished. Those regions are still places where Midas and greedy builds aren't actively punished to the extent they should and most would tend to avoid out the push till people feel amply farmed.

Again, this is in no way an affront to your skill with undying as I mentioned before I see a lot of competency and good plays but that last hitting http://dotabuff.com/matches/450718877 would never happen on a EU server or US east where people play excessively aggressive and aim to end games early.

Because undying has issues scaling so far into late I would maximize impact on an early aggressive force fight where you are able to from an early stage utilize your hero to max capacity.

If you are going for a soul ring it would be to your advantage to put points into your heal over decay maybe try and level the two evenly. Using decay to bring enemies to a lower base, Soul ring + drop tombstone, and use your heal on yourself or the enemy once you have maybe a two stack of zombies up and munching.

@ΨHellacioussΨ, no, they do , i had checked http://dotabuff.com/matches/405833375