Everything is situational. You would only move to gank with clock around 7 because maxing Q and hookshot is a sure kill at since max q gives around 1200 dmg.
I would say you could start ganking with others earlier but It really is down to how fast you get level 6/7 and whether you think the rotation will pay off if you go earlier or wait just a little longer for a level 7 max skill.
When I play offlane my decision as to whether to stay or go roaming rests on weighing the benefits of me staying on my lane longer against the benefits of helping my teammates gank / push.
For example, if I play an offlane Bounty Hunter against say Viper and Omniknight, after getting Track I take a moment to evaluate my options; on the one hand, ganking either of these 2 alone is not an option, so unless our mid player decides to pay a visit to my lane, staying would simply result in me having Track and not using it for the duration. On the other hand, I could go to a different lane, help gank and/or push, making use of my Track as early as possible to benefit the entire team. The obvious downside to this is that Viper (or whatever other carry in his stead) would get free farm and my lane's tower could possibly get destroyed. Of these 2 options I consider roaming more beneficial to my team (and myself) in the long run.
Now, Track is naturally best used as early as possible since it can help get an overall lead in terms of gold for your entire team, and in order to reap the benefits of Track a gank is necessary so restricting yourself to simply harassing the enemy may be a poor choice in light of the available alternative. So, if you're playing a Windranger or Clockwerk, for example, and you see that the other lanes are being won and you're having a considerable effect on the ability of your enemy's carry to farm, etc. then you might consider staying even after level 6 and even if you're unable to gank either of them alone, since checking the progress of the enemy's carry may be more beneficial to your team in the long run than ganking just about anyone (again, unless you're BH, since Track is so sweet).
That's my 2 cents.
-learn the attack range of safe lane carries/supports
-learn the max range on exp gain
-there are a million hiding spots in the trees and 999million if you use tangos to make more paths
learn those 3 and you can level fast safely
none of the good offlane heroes are good at ganking before lv 6. Do not assume that means that you should not be ganking prior if a opportunity comes up (shadowfiend walking to rune with 200 health)
A sidenote on bounty is that come lvl 4 with 2 lvls in shadow walk and jinada, with boots and an orb of venom, you can gank junglers like blood seeker, Chen, enchant, ursa and some others. Can be an easy first blood that cripples greed. This is because most junglers get exponentially better at jungling with lvls, but take a lot of damage in the first few slow lvls. Just don't spend more than 30s trying to find that kill at a time. If they aren't there go back to lane.
Offlane is sureley not about risk taking...
Offlane is about staying alive, grab lvls and gold. If you see an opportunity for 100% sure kill go for it, even if you die. But taking high risk? That is playing support, not offlane. Too often offlaners just try to grab kills and start feeding hard. When to leave lane? Depends on hero, on how good you control the lane. If the enemy has a low hp jungler aka doom/ursa/lc or maybe furion I leave lane on lvl 3-4, trying to snatch easy kill in the jungle. But only with pickupheros.
If and when I go gank depends on the hero. Pickupheros like BH/Qop can leave earlier. Other heros like DS/lich are not the best gankers at all and show their fullpotential in teamfights. So i try to stay on lane as long as possible with teamfighters or weaver. And who the hell maxes jinjada early on? I go 2 Lvl Shuriken, 1 lvl jinjada, 1 lvl invi. Max shuriken asap, so you have high damage nuke.
With weaver I like to stay as long as possible, since she needs a linkens asap.
Clinkz depends. He can be usefull earlier, but usually i try to stay as long as possible.
With Lich I stay till 6 and go force teamfights with my ult.
With DS I try to stay as long as possible. Maybe till mek and manaboots ready. By this time I try to force teamfights.#
With Furion I try to stay as long as it is safe to stay. Sometimes you are just forced in the Jungle, if enemy has alot of disables and shit.
Slark till lvl 6, then roam.
I have no XP with Clock/Timber/Mirana, so thats up to others to judge.
Clock can benefit from farming. I tend to gank as soon as in lvl 6, have brown boots and a bottle. Ganking that midlane is always good as with hook and cogs you are one of the few that can both initiate from range and properly lock down their mid away from their tower.
I build clock as mostly an anti carry / sacrificial lamb. Early blade mail means when you do your suicidal initiation you will mess up their teams health much more and it also means without a bkb those squidgey agi carries cant fight you in your cogs.
From then on in its all situational.
@a_moron
depends on hero and playstyle. i always pick aggressive offlaners like slark, bb, doom, clock, weaver, timber and i dive towers and trade kills
with doom? buy orb > stick > phase boots, start harassing with ur heal and stick and then go back when its about to go off
The key to decide whether to leave the offlane to gank is to have the right vision. Often offlane player neglect this and so whatever choice they make its just luck if it goes well or not.
Right as you are hitting level 6/7 on an offlane solo your first set of obs wards are timing out. In a pub a support probably did not get you more even if they did get the first set for you. But you NEED them. Put vision up as soon as possible to be certain whether that carry is alone and can be killed or if there is a rotation coming at you from mid. If the enemy support continue to keep the carry well guarded you can go gank mid with confidence.
If you can see them you know if they have the following weaknesses
[1] they did not smoke to gank somewhere
[2] do not have tp to help mid
[3] do not have enough mana to cast anyway
[4] are busy with that double pull they are trying to set up
[5] went back because oom
[6] did not get more sentries or obs yet
Whatever weaknesses you see you can exploit. Offlaners need to see the enemy supports, their position and situation tell you where you can attack.
if we put relentless' dota brain with my insane dota talent we could create a dota god
No, its really not. Vision is absolutely essential if the other team doesn't suck... at very low pub levels you can get away without having vision for the offlaners, but if the enemy has a basic knowledge of how to zone and kill offlane heroes you need to ward.
If they are good, then you need to ward in an uncommon place. and at the competitive level you need to send the team there in force to place the ward because pros know it completely determines the success or failure of the offlane.
Any besides why wouldn't you do both? For pubs I place the wards and block the creeps pretty much every game if I go solo offlane. There is plenty of time.
I see that you like timbersaw. If you picked timersaw against me and did not ward. I could keep you at level 1 with a venomancer for the first 5 minutes of the game... unless you got help. You would never see the creeps. I can block the safelane creeps way way more than you could ever block yours. My creeps are faster now... so the difference between where they go when properly blocked and not is huge. Creeps will end up at the safelane tower despite icefrogs efforts in a pro game.
no you actually have no idea
if the other team is good you get nothing and they counter your wards or even if you have wards you still get nothing
or you get some xp and farm while they get xp and farm on their carry and on their support and you get raped once they both hit 6
and yes there is time if you get the wards right away but i usually get them at -0.40 and never fucking place them at the beginning because thats losing you your lane
both works people play differently. my strategy is i dont ward and i start with pms and extra regen from teammates so i can go head to head vs supports. maybe i can kill and disrupt carrys farm.
Personally, I am a fan of leaving the pull camp unwarded vs a tri, preferring to ward the area next to the lane (and the other for rune vision if you have both wards). This way, you have knowledge over where the two supports are and know how to act. If the creep wave disappears, it's fine, let them pull. The gold/exp is so minimal from a stacked easy camp or double pulled camp. More importantly, the ward shows if they're at your lane or not. If they're not sitting by their carry, in the woods, or pulling, most likely the supports (most often both go together) are ganking mid or tri. Let your team know, then you can start playing aggressive in lane by starting to get some last hits or harassing the carry. Don't be too obvious in your actions of being aggressive/passive though, because a good support will see the offlaners tendencies, and be able to counterward your vision.
If it's a 2-1-2 blocking the pull is pretty important. Lane control can be easy now that the lane starts back and your creeps are slow.
I like going boots first, gives you the extra mobility to jump in and out of exp range if you're being zoned out. If you're being zoned out, the extra stats won't help you. Also, the boots can help you get the ward down faster from base.
Thanks for all the pointers, definitely gave me some ideas that I haven't used and also reaffirmed a lot that I do. The team that I play in will most likely give me 1 ward (best change ever) to take to lane. Its just a debate on where I put it, usually Radiant I place it just out of lane in the jungle to give me vision for possible ganks from mid and supports or small camp. For Dire I like to place for ward vision and side of lane where you can see bush for ganks from behind or the small camp too.
The point one of you made on wards around the 7/8 minute mark was probably the most pertinent. That's usually the time I'm the strongest but most unsure where to make the most impact with my lvl advantage. Bounty hunter is tricky for me as usually 6 you should go gank for the $ but I find that at 7 solo kills on supports are easily attainable so I probably stay around lane to long occasionally, BOUNTY GREED!
I tend to play offlane Passively and I think the reason I have asked this to you all was to see what I could do to possibly add more aggressive style to my game. I know its often situational but after reading a lot of these posts I feel I can try a few more things and see the results for myself. Cheers
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Hi Community
So I really enjoy playing offlane, it can be pretty rough and generally not a lot of fun early especially with an abusive tri-lane. Its a role I have learned to love as in each game the challenge is slightly different. My question revolves around timing, I know levels are the important part and getting any last hit is like a bonus but I want to know when is the best time to move around the map to gank with TP's or smoke etc?
My thinking would be lvl 6 but that is also usually the time you have the most effect against their carry with harass and possible kills on supports. I'm an average player so my mechanics aren't by any means the greatest but I would just like to improve and help my teams better.
Any advice will be great thanks.