Let's see other players pull that off. Chances are they won't. ES was played by almost anyone and even bad players who made constant mistakes still won games because of ES. Sniper is slightly OP but he isn't broken.
But dude I started my solo queue win streak on Sniper a little while ago BEFORE they buffed Sniper and the items I get on him...
http://dotabuff.com/players/1689352/matches?hero=sniper&game_mode=&match_type=real
Now it's just godly. 20% lifesteal? 5 second sange slow? +80 more range? Jesus help us.
I was joking. Still, people underestimate and often ignore sniper because most people playing him are terrible. He isn't that bad in my opinion and can often win games, all about positioning and surviving team fights.
safelane. Not sure why sniper would be awful safelane - he needs a lot of farm, and he really benefits from the protection of supports. As sniper, you need:
1.) farm
2.) hp/move speed/survivability
3.) attack speed
And later on, you need:
4.) attack damage
5.) Survivability
S&Y early gives hp, move speed, and a bit of attack speed/farm. Perfect. In that game, in fact, my first items after phase boots (move speed for survivability) were ogre axe and belt. Idiot tried to gank me, ran away laughing with 30% hp. My next pick up, before finishing sange was MoM. This allows me survivability through move speed in some situations as well as truly lethal killing power with headshot if I am left untouched. Use wisely. It also aides in farm through attack speed and life steal (you can sustain yourself whether jungling, taking lane harass, or farming lane at constant full HP).
Eye of skadi is the nxt logical item after S&Y: Huge HP increase, and skadi slow is nice (it works with lifesteal). Then you get a run-of-the-mill damage item. Crit if they have no evasion, mkb if they do or might. I went MKB because of slark. Afterward, I planned on getting a butterfly.
During this game, I recall having 2.2k HP when bristle had 1.3k. I'd tank a whole doom, still kill, and absorb other damage sources too. I am so strong.
Sniper is so easy to kill at any point in the game. If the enemy have any mobility skills at all it isn't hard to bring him down.
If the sniper is playing with a team where someone can hold a reliable front for him to hide behind he is a very very strong hero. But until late game it only takes a blink and some nukes to remove him from any fight.
Sniper mid is a joke, have fun losing mid. He needs to be put in safe lane and be played as a late late carry to be effective imo
@commodore
Tell that to the blinking ss that tried to gank me when I had 1100 HP at like 8 minutes.
Sniper is easy to kill = myth. Lots of carries are easier to kill than sniper. Sniper merely has a reputation because so many players with absolutely no map awareness and autoattackers love to pick sniper. Sniper also seems "easy" to kill because people like to build paper snipers. His most common items are Shadow Blade and Desolater... so sniper dies to a couple nukes even late game.
But sniper does not have to be built so that he instantly dies. My current record with sniper is 17-8 win/loss and 4.5 KDA. I build tanky snipers. When I am attacked I fight and win instead of falling over dead in 2 seconds. With sniper buffed even more in 6.80 I will probably be picking sniper more.
If burst dmg does not kill a sniper he does not die easily. He will require 3 heroes to kill and map rotations that big are easy to see and avoid even if they are smoked.
hahaha arteezy went sniper mid and died like 3 times in 3 mins, it's impossible to survive any kind of gank with sniper
http://dotabuff.com/matches/488802981
19 deaths rofl
this is why i dont want americans in my european prosperous server
EUROPE IS FOR EUROPEANS
@sano
Well, yeah, sniper is weak early game for sure. Low hp, low move speed, no skills that help him survive (stuns, locomotion, etc.). But Sniper mid is sort of like sending Drow mid or any other carry. Yeah, it's going to be a hard time against a team that pinpoints that weakness and ganks you.
it's not a myth at all. he is super easy to kill because he has no stun nor escape mechanism.
he is a sitting duck.
sniper mid is no joke. trashes a lot of mids that dont have mobility (od doesn't rape him...) and he scales pretty well provided you don't go with a stupid build.
obviously no mobility but plenty of mids don't (storm <6, sf come to mind) and he actually has better laning phases than both of those heroes.
also its kind of self-defeating if you get a ton of hp items on sniper. an armlets the most you should be getting in that department seeing as it still gives him some damage potential. better off getting a butterfly which will make him just as survivable at that stage of the game (evasion roughly equals to the hp boost at that stage of the game, might be a bit less but way more beneficial for his kind of carry). manta is good too.
Storm spirit no mobility?
give me some of the stuff you've been puffing man.
^He said storm <6.. As in, before his ulti.
Especially with the nerf to his ms in this patch, he's not kidding..
the difference is that storm has insane armor and remnant to defend himself, SF can raze down any support who ganks him, sniper can just autoattack and run
sniper>sf or storm in mid. try it before you say "sniper noob hero!!!" because headshot is literally the most retarded 1v1 matchup skill in the game.
i agree with the armor but sniper should never be passing the river anyway. he can jungle decently enough if he has to and his range means he never really has to. also current meta = jungling supports like CM or whatever. i suppose you could get boots on him to make sure u dont get ganked though as his damage output is decent enough in lane.
smokin,
multiple things you have said (about hero mid line ups and sniper builds) indicate you have 3500 mmr. Please stop.
LOL you're assuming dota is a 1v1 game, sniper CAN'T BE GANKED, if he does, HE DIES, there's no way he can survive a gank, he dies way too easily thus he's a shitty hero
@Vandal:
Its only working in your scrubbracket. If you play @ 4,5k and pick a hero like pudge, sniper, tb etc. then your deathsrecord might get renewed.
Sniper is bad you can`t dodge ganks early vs tryhards,only if you are afk at tower and not taking exp. or maybe be at fountain.
vandal if ur a 4000 shitbracketer you can't go around talking as if you're not.
should really figure out how to position sniper instead of building the impractical builds that you have of sniper. forcing a hero that has zero flashfarm capability to get 11k worth of items to be useful whereas any other carry would be able to farm significantly more than that and be way more effective is the same problem.
snipers not a front line hero you dont sit him in front of the tower when you're pushing and you put him in fog at all times when you're not in the middle of a fight. playing him like dk or some shit (as shown by your build of 2000 hp) is evidence of ur 4000 shitbracketiness.
Sniper+blink must be so fckn fun to play now, can't wait for the weekend to rape (hopefuly) ppl with him :D
Yes sniper is very OP, nerf required.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/409009634
^ Sniper raping a full farmed void and Sven.
@Vandal
Sending sniper mid is nothing like you would send drow mid. You don't send drow mid for farm or to shut down the enemy mid, you send her there to get fast level 6 to buff the ranged attacks of all team.
And btw you played exactly one game since patch and you have 56% win rate with sniper. One game means nothing.
Personally I don't like sniper because has no ability to flash-farm jungle until you get the maelstorm and some form of regen / lifesteal. You need too much farm for my taste.
I think it should be pretty fun and effective to max Shrapnel and Take Aim mid and bottle spam, I've seen a few pros run him that way, the opponent got zoned out pretty hard.
Sniper sucks.
1. Low base dmg, very easy to force an aggressive lane against sniper and as long as you stop sniper from getting boots into phase early hes pretty much fucked.
2. No escape mech = no map control (say good bye to your farm if you have a black map)
3. Marginally useful shrapnel skill (adding one level and stats is better than maxing it)
4. No Flashfarm, cant even nutsack ancients or nc efficiently... just means its very easy to flush out a farming sniper since its easy to predict where he is.
5. Counter-intuitive skill in Take Aim, resulting in retarded xp/gold gain interaction especially in team fights. (im not sure how true this is in d2)
6. Shit turn rate for a hero that lives on kiting
7. BKB > headshot ministun, mkb, maelstrom
8. No counter pushing, pushing or counter ganking skills (except for assassinate), making him a shit hero to have for split push or making tp rotations.
He can out range towers, that is about it.
There is no doubt sniper is strong if he is 6 slotted, but he goes in the drow category for me. If you ever play against drow/sniper you just shut them down early and it is very hard to come back for them. Drow is still squishy as shit but at least has some useful team features. Slow, Silence, Bonus Damage. And her AGI gain gives her crazy damage for the 5 minute mark.
Sniper is a carry... I'm so shocked he has little early game impact and required farm.... Wow a carry hero can be shut down if ganked and gets no farm because the whole map is dark? He must suck.
If the same level of early protection that is typically given to anti-mage is given to sniper, the sniper can do more with it and contribute sooner. Anti-mage can do nothing early or mid game without putting himself in a risky position... even after an AM has Bfury and Manta he is still very easy to kill in a teamfight because he has to position right next to the enemy to do any damage. Sniper can help in mid game fights and siege towers in a very safe position in the back of his team.
Really what a carries does split pushing is dangerous and poor strategy. A different hero should fill that role while the carry should be with the team to deal dmg in fights mid-game. If you put lots of farm on a hero you want to use that power... not have him away from the fight and hopefully avoiding a gank with his oh so wonderful escape ability.
Sniper does not have to change position to shift his dps to a new target as conditions change in a fight. He can hit any target required from the same safe position... switching takes only the 0.3 seconds between attacks. A carries real dmg dealt is often dramatically less because they spend so much time walking. Sniper can do the full dmg his items provide.
@blunt
I have more than 4.5k MMR. Thank you.
@everyone else
I don't understand these arguments about 6-slotted Sniper. As soon as I finish my MoM and especially MoM + S&Y, I am able to kill people very early on. I had 55% rate with Sniper before, and they buffed the shit out of him. Jesus help us all. There seems to be a fallacy that Sniper does no damage. His headshot, phase boots damage, and attack speed (with surviving) result in incredible DPS. And then here is the finale: His ultimate is basically a tremendous nuke (no damage?). Uhh, ok. Sometimes when I finish MoM with ultimate, I'll TP to another lane and gank. That's how lethal that shit is if the situation is right.
Look at this game I lost, so I couldn't get any damage items operational:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/480036652
You should notice that I have nearly 20k hero damage (half of my teams hero damage), the fewest deaths, the most kills, and a bunch of zero-impact players on my team playing OD/Ember.
^ Your sniper skills wont help you if your team fails all lanes and gives away all towers in 20 min, believe me. Forced games are so forced.
Someone has a 55% WR with a hero. Proof that hero is OP.
Look at that Slark. http://dotabuff.com/players/156479193
If that guy has 5k MMR.....
No one said sniper doesn't do damage. He has poor base damage that is all. Starting DMG is 43 or something?
I still think majority of you players take the bandwagon way too seriously and need to think outside the box more often.
Most of you stick with lame rudimentary boring guides that are RECOMMENDATIONS and not requirements. Game-play changes even with the same heroes, you don't always go the same build.
FFS during wraith night I even saw people leveling their shitty nuke spells over DPS stats, buying wands and wraith bands or what not as if we were playing a game of Dota. Meanwhile I'm farming two divines, a crit and deso owning the shit out of the entire game with just another friend.
Perfect example of the common community of any game, especially here on Dota 2 - as you can see here on this forum as well. One way only; stubborn and ignorant.
Too much underestimation of sniper, I hope he gets an even bigger buff to showcase that he's just a viable hero as any other.
It's fun to see a sniper own puck with pausing/retargeting assassinate even though he has phase shift.
Simple things like that that make a huge difference between average snipers and good snipers. Most people who player sniper suck, thus giving sniper a bad reputation imo.
Well I've stroked my ego long enough. Have at it boys.
@Relentless
AM is a very poor comparison to sniper in terms of mid-game capability.
One of the many reasons Sniper is shit is because he cant split push (as an alternate option) to farm, the only way for him to snowball reliably is to commit a safe lane with early protection nearly equivalent to that given to Am. For someone whos going to chuck retardedly stupid dps in mid game, he isnt worth the level of support commitment. Even if you do commit and win team fights he doesnt benefit as much, thanks to the gold/xp gain interaction at max att range. There are so many mid game carries that can snowball much harder with the type of "Am protection" that you describe.
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Guys, I just did a test run of Sniper. I think there might be some imbalance.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/492200278