General DiscussionConsidering the usefulness of casual Soul Booster on several heroes

ROFL SOULBOOSTER MEDUSA, YOU LOST ALL CREDIBILITY

soul booster on dusa was "ok" until they changed her ultimate, now its either linkens -> DPS or straight Manta -> DPS

geez... I said i was considering heroes that could use the item. Frankly i was stretching to add heroes to the list.

Also, when did I gain credibility in the first place? Or is that just some nonsense people chirp around the scene without giving it thought?

i dont understand your thread

^
The purpose of my thread is to ask for opinions on the usefulness of soul booster, and which heroes can take advantage of it.

The reason why is that there are not many items that provide heroes with health/mana/and health/mana regen in the 2000-3000 gold range. Often when i play heroes like bristle-back or axe, i find that its hard to become successfully tank with enough regen and mana to really thrive in the early to mid game. I feel soul booster may serve that purpose well.

Also, on some heroes i think the full blood stone is overkill, especially when dying in team fights.

I'm asking for advice on which heroes may make use of this item that normally do not.

i think timber is ok with it but he is aggressive so Hp is really needed on him
darkseer to spam stuff is awesome
bristles manacost isnt that much and vanguard is much better on him than soulb
medusa just no
axe you can go soulb if you have extra money in your pocket but not that gamechanging
Death's prophet: she needs tankiness for her ult so no

I don't think so for timber, simply because he has better choices available to him. Arcanes + Urn -> Atos seems like a better way to spend that money, if you aren't rushing a bloodstone that is.

Bristleback doesn't need it really, just don't spam while farming, you can always turn that bsi into a soul ring if you really wanted to, which is alright once you have vanguard up.

@darkness, lmfao on Dark Seer? cant tell if troll

For bristle i really like the quill spam. It really boosts his farming and his damage and speed. It can be very nice spaming it before going into a fight so that your ulti is nice and charged.

Also, surprised to see people speaking highly of vanguard on bristle, but nice to see the item finally being appreciated.

Really surprised to see players not approving of blood stone on a timber...

I sometimes convert venos arcane boots into one then transition to boots of travel

There's no reason not to go for bloodstone if you already have soul booster - you just 8 charges + a suicide option. It's basically a core item on him timbersaw, I don't think I've ever seen a good timbersaw player not rush bloodstone. There's no such thing as a casual soul booster. There's no need to go bloodstone on death prophet. Phase + drums + euls is a better option since it's not the mana she needs but the movement speed so that she can chase with her ghosts.

It's decent in Ursa

First item on Sniper. Then you can get your midas.

bs on spe also underestimated

^ interesting thought. will try that bs spe tonight.

I thought all heroes could use soul booster, did they change it or wut?
Is it reverse the thing that happened with pudge and venge?

SARCASM, don't lose ur mind plz

There is no reason to get soulbooster unless you are going bloodstone.
http://dotabuff.com/items/bloodstone
http://dotabuff.com/items/soul-booster

Consider the dramatic difference for some heros if you don't finish it. This shows which ones need it and how badly.

Timbersaw bloodstone 63% win => 17% win soulbooster (bloodstone core required)
Death Prophet bloodstone 71% win => 40% win soulbooster (bloodstone core option)
Storm Spirit bloodstone 68% win => 42% win soulbooster (bloodstone core option)
Necrophos bloodstone 77% win => 58% win soulbooster (bloodstone situational)
Rubic bloodstone 74% win => 64% win soulbooster (bloodstone not needed)

On Timbersaw if you don't get bloodstone you lose. On Rubic if you don't get it... means nothing.

You can use this sort of comparison to see if bloodstone can work well on other heroes.

Ember Spirit 69% win => 44% win soulbooster (bloodstone core option)
Earth Spirit 72% win => 55% win soulbooster (bloodstone situational)
Faceless Void 80% win => 68% win soulbooster (bloodstone not needed)
Riki 77% win => 68% win soulbooster (bloodstone not needed)

While I agree if you go soul booster, you might as well go all the way for blood stone, I don't think it's fair to just take the winning %'s and use that as proof. I feel like a large majority of those who ended up with a soul booster couldn't farm the last 1750 because they were losing...not because they were just going a "casual" soul booster.

Who the gets bloodstone on void are probably WAY deep in trench

you don't casually get an item that costs 3300 and does nothing. either youre making a bloodstone or you get something better.

^ That's not at all accurate, when you build soul booster its ALMOST always with the intention of a bloodstone, which is imo worth the extra <2k gold, Except for the good supports who prioritize other items, which if they build a soul booster it should be gg already

"On Timbersaw if you don't get bloodstone you lose."

Timbersaw bloodstone 63% win => 17% win soulbooster (bloodstone core required)

Gyrocopter 2 rapier, Sata, bf 63% win => 17% win 3branch, boots ( core items required )
" On Gyro if you dont get items you lose "

Do u see where im going with this ?

ok didnt c frostychee alrdy explained u how life works

I normally like relentless' logic and math and posts but that one makes no sense. More likely a lot of rubric's farmed soul booster without finishing bloodstone and the timbers we're gunning for bloodstone but weren't able to finish cus they lost. It's a small window to complete soul booster and win the game before you get bloodstone. Much, much bigger window to get soul booster and lose.

Yes, I'll agree with all the people here who've already said that nobody goes for an item that costs 3300 gold in a "casual" way.

That said, are you sure you are not confusing Soul Booster with Point Booster? The latter IS an item some people, mostly supports, get casually and then turn into something else if they get the money.

Edit: No, wait...you actually meant Soul Booster, forget what I wrote.

The reason the Timbersaw does so poorly if he does not complete bloodstone is that he needs it. Other heroes that attempt to get bloodstone and don't finish it can still win without it, some rather easily.

On a hero for which bloodstone is a joke, like Faceless void you can see that failing to complete it moves his winrate down only 12%. But on a hero where bloodstone can be important, Storm Spirit drops 26% winrate for not finishing it. For a hero that must have it, Timbersaw drops 46% winrate. You can see the relative importance of bloodstone to a hero by this method.

Comparing to Ember and Earth, you can see that bloodstone might work out well for them. But its not absolutely required. Bloodstone appears to be much stronger on Ember than Earth.

Now OP asks about Axe, Medusa, and Bristleback. Lets see what the pub data indicates. Thousands of attempts have already been made. How did they do?

Axe 81% win bloodstone => 68% win soulbooster
Medusa 72% win bloodstone => 62% win soulbooster
Bristleback 80% win bloodstone => 69% win soulbooster

We can see that for all these heroes, bloodstone is about as important as it is to Faceless Void or Riki.

soul booster wat ?

point booster is by far the best of the boosters for its price. 350 points /1200 gold = .29
energy booster 250/1000 = .25
vit booster 250/1100 = .23

casually getting an energy booster? --> you're throwing the game

casually getting a vitality booster? --> youre still basically throwing

casually getting a point booster --> you cant be killed and you can drop a shit ton of spells

casually getting a soul booster --> 2 throws + 1 not throw + some minor regen bonuses : still throwing

also, there's no such thing as casually getting a point booster anyways. not only was it already better than the other two boosters, but it turns into aganhims which is practically one of the best items on most support heroes. and if you cant farm the other 3 chunks of 1000 in between deaths even while getting slammed then ur gonna lose anyway.

NO.

May be leshrac

but again

NO.

make it into Soulbooster then buy something else.

no you dont
its just that nobody actually gets a soul booster on timbersaw like ever because theres no reason to get one or to have one at any time of the game other than 1 sec before completing your bloodstone
so if you get a soul booster but not a bloodstone than you are both a downie and someone who's having a terrible game and maybe a 0.5% chance that you indeed are autistic enough to think that a casual soulbooster is a good thing to go for

its quite similar to a quarterstaff and butterfly
if you go for butterfly you really have no need to ever have that item in your inventory (almost always)
the chances would be looking a lot more drastic like the timbersaw bloodstone ones if quarterstaffs didnt build into orchid or refresher

^lol this kid calling anyone downs or autistic

where are your friends bro? you're fucking nobody, even vrok or fadi have less % of autism compared to you

man why cant i be as cool as you kids playing games that are impossible to lose when 5 man stacking and trying real hard just to be flagged as an abuser because you cant even get there by playing normal games

i dont think vrok and his friends should be flagged as abusers, their dotabuff profile should be deleted.

but we're talking about you, stop pretending ur somebody fucking trash

well if it's fun for you to play in 5 stacks every game and winning 90% of your games while you struggle having more kills than deaths on heroes who cant actually die then theres that for you

lolwut? the amount of trash that emits from u equates to vrok and fadis skill level

like if you could actually play this game or if you would abuse any less than them it would be okay to flame them or me
but i don't quite see your point
are you pretending to be better than anyone here and trying to prove it by abusing or trying real hard in 5 stacks and dodging games if you don't get your heroes
i mean i can understand your frustration after spending hundreds of hours to get your account up just to be removed from the rating you care so much about
hope your internet friends help you coping with that

Is it THAT bad to get a Soul Booster for Axe? Can't you just get the vit booster, blink, then maybe upgrade to soul booster?

Soul Booster but not Bloodstone

feels like get invisible Amulet but not going for Shadow Blade.

Axe needs tankability, if he's getting a casual vit booster, he's probably either saving for a heart or a fast vanguard. There just is no point getting a soul booster when you can get a heart for about 2000 more. I have never seen a soul booster purchased on any competitive game without it being finished into a point booster. This is all great theory-crafting but practically speaking, casual soul booster has no use.

if you mean staying soul booster until the end of the game just no, point booster has 40% winrate itself in dotabuff,
soooo that's pretty much the answer for it

uh the hero that you mentioned need to stay in battlefield longer than any other heroes, so probably getting some regen item is more useful for them rather than mana/health pool

for timber i prefer to see someone with schyte of vyse on him first then bloodstone (not saying bloodstone is bad on him)
cause i would expect someone even support will eventually get forcestaff when timber had his bloodstone
so vyse can help to disable them

if you ask me even magic wand is quite better than soul booster this in term of cost
1. it's finished item
2. Cost 509
3. you get 225 health and mana for full charge
4. the hero that you mention are required to stay in fight so they gain more wand charge than any heroes

Drum add:
171 health
117 mana
awesome aura
pretty sure because of reason no 4, aura will have more effect if carried by these heroes

correct me if i'm wrong, plox

magic stick and magic wand have always been considered as the most cost effective items

Thoughts:

>The win rates % isn't always about the bloodstone as some of these people would have been going sceptre/skadi and not the BS
>For Axe, soul booster is a very good option if you are avoiding the hood/vangaurd stage and going for agha/BS
>Medusa I wouldn't bother
>The fact that the winrate on BS is higher than that of soul booster could also be due to a deficiency in enough farm to get any of the 3 item combos before the game had ended either way.

Similarly in the way brown boots might have a higher overall winrate than phase but that isn't really a deciding factor on whether to stay brown or go phase.

To answer more along the lines of what OP is on about the casual soul booster is a good item to have as long as you are looking to turning it into something sooner rather than later. Early game the additional HP/Mana is beneficial but later becomes fairly useless as a stat item.