General DiscussionBroodmother is bullshit. WHERES THE DAMN NERF.

I was playing this game hunting that god-damn spider loopy loop around and in trees. In the end he just ran off the map with "this hero too OP" He literally was hiding off the map.

I have to agree. The hero still isn't so good but you will just have a hard time killing it while it pushes you down to crap.

Luckily because he was played so little in the past now that he is OP people will need to "learn" him so there is time to find counters http://dotabuff.com/matches/355338652

buy a fucking quel blade it is not that hard brood is still a shitty hero

obviously a quel blade solves. rus doto, best doto.

Quelling blade eats 1 tree every few seconds it is in no way a viable counter.

Still most people don't even try to use it I guess. It's a free way to keep some of the trees away.

even if you eat a whole bunch of trees they will just respawn in time. and it's not like he has to choose one web to hide into. last game I was lucky enough to random awesome void to go vs mother on lane, hilariously bad matchup. he had whole bottom side of sentinel cliff in webs and was literally entering our base at will.

Im just saying quel blade will stomp is laning phase then all he can do later game is run away

There are a lot of heroes that actually could counter brood,If you are getting owned by brood that doesnt mean the hero is OP same goes for any other buffed heroes, they got buffed cause they were weak .

I mean she will never succeed consistently in decent play. With the CC that most teams run IE: Naga,Cm - ect~ She won't even be in the trees.

yeah, that must be the reason. have you noticed the trend in, i dno, last 10 patches or so?

Guys lets be honest. Broodmother is shit. I mean cmon ... its a fucking broodmother let the bitch camp a lane all game and just clear the spiders with AOE, whatever.

You sound like the Queen of Pain I played against with Broodmother.
(Yesterday, IGN: Egeenz)

Tbh I think brood is still underpowered. I mean seriously, after getting some knowledge about how to play brood now, I understood how shit brood would be without the ability to freepath.

The broodmothers you've been owning are the equivalent of a Furion duo laning without adding teleport.

I'm not even going to bother explaining if you guys are unable to comprehend why I feel Brood is strong. If you really feel the need to know, plz ask guys like Relentless why he BM will never enter CM until his net receives a nerf or another rework.

I dno what are you people are smoking but i want some.

And plz understand opening thread contents are about Rat Doto.

I never said anything about brood crushing other heroes.

Relentless can write a nice long essay it does not mean he is right.

lets nerf heroes because they annoy you?

snow: "This dude takes rat doto to a whole new level."

I'm going to just try to explain my thought process once;

Webs make a brood near unkillable if he camps the edges of the maps. All the trees. All the cliffs where he becomes untargetable. Unless brood is an idiot, he will always be positioned near trees and won't expose himself it the opposing team is missing.

What does this mean?

You will have a perpetual split pushing brood at one of your side lanes. You don't even have vision of this guy since he's hiding all the time. His spiders can go invisible and run away too, so unless broods a big noob, you're seldom getting giant clumps of gold and exp from spiders. He has unlimited sustain with ulti, sr + webs.

A good example of what this will feel like, is a Furion with invisibility immune to true sight, forever at one of your lanes.

This creates pressure for the enemy team. This creates space for your own team. You get tons of gold. This is the epitome of split pushing.

any decent batrider can stop his split push

Broodmother is just more elusive, she has however same DPS (or maybe even lesser dps). The trick in killing her is baiting, thats the most reliable way of killing her. You guys should also consider buying tangos or quelling blade like you did for escaping furion but here for killing brood

However the most sad thing I saw was a brood against absolute no treedestroying heroes and her just being afk with a radiance in a hard to reach spot and cutting creeps like that.

I dont see her getting nerfed or buffed, tbh i think she is fine as she is

Meh i still dont know snowman. She can still die before getting into trees or cliff so easily ( any stun ). Spiders are pretty easy to kill with aoe even if she micros ( QoP can just blink and scream before she can save her little spiders ).

Never had any problem with ratdoto against brood, she doesnt kill towers as fast as furion in my opinion.

Maybe i am wrong, but i think i am right :P .

There are a lot of abilites that cut trees or see inside them. And when you find her it's not even hard to kill. And he still doesn't do anything other than pushing your towers. He won't even leave the lane all game long. Meanwhile you will win fights 4v5 and he will be trying to get your rax.

"However the most sad thing I saw was a brood against absolute no treedestroying heroes and her just being afk with a radiance in a hard to reach spot and cutting creeps like that. "

Ok that could be ownage

Well, I'm hardly convincing anyone so I won't insist on Brood being OP but I'll give my arguments nonetheless. Feel free to remain strong on your own opinions

Firstly, the reason why I said tree cutting is useless is because web has a CD of 30 seconds. The radius is 900. The short cd means a Brood will basically have an entire connection of webs in a lane, so cutting down trees hardly matters if he can just move to the next trees.

Second, like Sam said, probably the only legitimate way to catch a brood is another hero that ignores pathing like Batrider.

Third, Broodmother has a team. Lets stop with the crazy gank ideas on him. Because thats exactly what a split pusher hero wants; to cost the opponents a lane.

Fourth, he has crazy farm speed and has multiple methods of farming; including jungle and farming WITHOUT his hero being there. Can we stop assuming Brood to be a poor fuck with no items.

Fifth, he will be nerfed/reworked or he will never enter CM. Because webs make him the ultimate offlaner.

Sixth, Brood can split push without appearing on the map. How do you kill a hero you cannot find? Like he's not even on the minimap or your map. He just shoots his spiders from trees and leeches exp while the spiders push. He won't even need to be there if he really wants to be safe. Will you honestly dedicate all that time to hunt him down? Hence why I call him the ultimate rat doto.

alot of the shit you listed brood could alrdy do and he still was garbage

The spiderlings give a lot of bounty. If brood wants to afk hide in the trees just kill the spiders. Drop a sentry and take em out. So you don't get to kill brood oh well, you're basically fighting 5 on 4 at that point with some bonus gold. He might push your tier 1 or 2 hiding in the trees but he's not going to rax you like that.

Like I said, lets just wait and see.

I like how most of you here were among those that insisted SB didn't need a nerf. So lets just wait for time to pass again.

Note: My annoyance are at those who added a 'know-it-all' tone along with assholey to their comments. To the rest that gave constructive arguments, thank you.

I find it cute that you bring up the SB nerf. You say valve is smart for nerf'n him but they are dumb for buff'n brood. ZOMG VALVE SO STUPID WHY U NO NERF BROOD, gj valve must know what they are doing cuz they nerf SB. You cant have it both ways either valve doesnt know what they are doing or valve knows what they are doing.

Brood as a hero is not hard to kill or counter in the same respect natures profit isn't. Its just the heroes constant ability to push and get away adds an extra level of complexity to a teams composure and you have to be actively on the move with TP's at hand, dust and sentries.

Again, the hero isn't that good and still isn't but this is yet another natures profit type hero so it is sometimes harder to deal with her constant pushing and getting away and if not kept it check will just rax you without difficulty. Much like NP' a lot of people don't care if you can clear the brood wave as long as they do the damage to the tower they are happy to let them die.

Lost game http://dotabuff.com/matches/354033495 too much split push and in the end we lost.
Won game http://dotabuff.com/matches/355338652 easier cause of the void, puck and beastmaster.

Something I said in my SB thread; "A overpowered hero does not mean he has no counters."

Anyway, BM will most definitely receive changes because of his current exclusion to CM mode. So I don't really think theres much in arguing that he'll be unchanged.

@Havoc, Beastmaster seems to be really good against him but I think there was also a big element of your team outplaying the other team too. The BM had a lower gpm than Bane.

To be honest, she's not as annoying to kill as a Boots of Travel Tinker, or a Blink Dagger Puck. The most annoying thing is that she's elusive as fuck since level 1, but apart from that, she's hardly OP. If a nerf is going to be considered in time, it would be getting less movespeed when crossing trees and unpassable terrain, but nothing more drastic than that...seriously, she's the hero who has probably received the least love in dota history, let her have her moment of Op...ness.

no everytime they make sweeping changes they dont allow it in CM, is this your first month playing dota or something that is pretty common knowledge. Drow Ranger wasnt allowed in CM for a while and she wasnt really all that good still

I didn't know that only Brood received a rework. Funny.

@Zano capability wise, she loses to those heroes. But she doesn't need farm :/

^ Huskar got reworked in 6.78, disallowed from CM, same for Medusa in that patch
When Centaur's ulti got reworked into what we know today instead of just more brute STR stats, he was disallowed from CM too
Now it's Broodmother's and Slark's turns...even though Slark was mostly nerfed instead of buffed, but we'll see how they deal with this.

I called it when I said one of Bara's nerf would consist of his ulti being able to be interrupted. Let's see if I'm right about Brood getting slowed when phasing through terrain and trees before being allowed again in CM :)

And sure, she doesn't need that much farm, but she's still a goldmine for most AOE heroes.

Brood is OP imo. When pushing the side lane's tier 2 towers. He can just put 2-3 webs in the trees and its practically impossible to catch him unless you decide to all of your team's attention to that 1 hero and try to burst him down, problem is, a good player wouldn't allow it to happen. Even if he lets himself get killed you'll probably lose much more. Next thing is about going uphill. The goddamn spider can go out of the map at dire's tier 3. A sniper can barely get a few hits on him. BM can just stick around and spam his spiderlings and just a matter of time before your t3 go down

Brood is the same hero as before, she'll take your towers in off-lane and then just be useless afterwards. She wont be able to take rax verse any counter push or earth shaker and then she'll just be the exact same hero as before. Apply same tactics as on weaver to kill her.

Plus I'm not sure valve even cares that much about balance. A lot of their balance changes seem to be to make some heroes more popular and others less. Like enigma and disruptor buffs. Why were they buffed? Already awesome support heroes, just no one ever wanted to play them. Now they're op pieces of crap. I still love em though cus I like to play supports. But they didn't need any buffs.

that is kinda the thing you will never have ALL heroes top tier it just doesnt work. Icefrog likes to change the game meta all the time to keep it interesting.

Yeah... Brood is one of my most played heroes
http://dotabuff.com/matches/354172316
Still not OP just powerful, still the winrate is sub 45

She is still trash-tier hero. Sure, she might be a pain in the ass in pubs when you maybe don't have any good hero vs her, but generally if you have 1-2 heroes that are good vs her she is done.

this is another qq thread coming from a simple minded player. aoe skills and items still own her broodlings. skills that go thru bkb can take her down and will never carry harder than a hard carry. think of it as a hero with both ww and blink combined while they're in their web. huskar 1v1 early game is op but even he can fall off late. what they did here was introduce a new playstyle into the game, if you don't want to adapt to it, then stay bad otherwise don't cry about change.

and the ppl saying this is valves doing are retards, icefrog makes the notes not valve, its still his game

Broodmother is bullshit 43% WR. WHERES THE DAMN BUFF.

I agree, I feel as if whenever i try to kill her, she just runs straight off the map.

Pick Timbersaw and make her suffer.

Dude u wnt counters? Pik es,gondar and SLARDAR!! blink in stun ,ulti lets c how many times brood escapes from ur stuns nd bashes..make sure u hve lots of mana regen item like magic wand or urn..seriously dude she is still a noob hero.....and u can bring her down with ur baras and huskars :)

Also don't forget about the bounty on those spiderlings. As hard as it might be to kill her, that's a ton of free gold and xp which can make a big game difference.

Agree, play smart with BM, you will almost give you win on pub game unless its against Bat, Timber, or similar counter. Its not unbeatable hero, but not picking its counter will give you hard time to deal with it.

Someone mention that Sladar & BH can easyly beat BM, but I think that wrong. Coz BM can win without showing main hero itself. How can you track that ??? The same case with dust, sentry or gem, he just simply run to the tree make diversion, and keep push.

And Bara charge?? BM just need get linken first

So what if you can't kill her? Any sort of aoe will clear out those spiders in one or two shots, feeding you gold in the process.

yep, still same shit hero, 0 team fight, but now harder to kill
+ completely different / unique gameplay compared to other heroes = fun to play