Then I'd say it's time to get better at the game and play against higher ranked opponents? It's under your own control basically.
"Then I'd say it's time to get better at the game and play against higher ranked opponents? It's under your own control basically. "
for this u need stable stack to build 55+ winrate or literally 2k+games and still u wont be playing top pages 100% of time unles u got like 60+winrate with tons of games
thats what briliant valve devs did by allowing people to stack as 3/4/5 in normal mm
Play solo and stacks aren't an issue, literally everybody has the same chances, and it is entirely on you. Maybe you get a bad team, but overall your record is all your problem in solo
ofc it isnt unles you believe that players with half your wins and less winrate should be on your team and have right to go mid
you will go from normal --> high by realizing you are making mistakes --> very high by actually learning from those mistakes and improving
you will forever be in low until you stop blaming your teammates all the time
you do not need a 5man stack or thousands of games to play in very high MM
You can review my games Sampson, I know I still do make mistakes but those hardly ever lose us the game. About 90% of the time we lose because of my teammates. I even stopped telling them what the mistakes where, because usually you get flamed for that.
Sometimes, just sometimes they listen to you, build actually BKB on the Luna and we turn the game.
But that's fucking rare. I'm doing my best, but hell, what can you do if you random a carry first and your teammates pick another 4. Sure you can switch to a support, lose gold and still lose because you're the only support on the map.
I do wanna improve, I really really do, I love the dota community and I'm willing to learn but so far I don't see a way how to ^^
I mean god dammit I got the enemy team commending me and telling me they feel sorry because I did good and my team just fed so hard I couldn't do anything and I shouldnt feel bad ^^
you should get to very high within 10 games
I've tested it out over 10+ accounts now. Every one of them got into very high within 10 games.
To get to the very top of the MMR bracket, you need around ~300 games to stay there consistently though
I only have 53% win rate and 100% of my games are page 1-3.
forever bad trying to make excuses. 'matchmakign is broken why Im playing with retards you cant get high level games without stacking'
I like to support but when I support the carries don't farm and when I carry the supports steal last hits ;) and if you tell them to not steal the last hits they start flaming o.O Literally that's what happened to me in all my Antimage games (stealing farm from antimage?) and I have 0 wins with him in 4 games (alongwith drow 0/4 and riki 0/6) :D
That's probably the point I'm most confused about. Even after 400 hours of dota and 300 games +, there are still a lot of players who don't get that dota has 5 players in 5 positions and that a position 5 shouldn't steal farm from a position 1. How is that still possible. Why do they steal farm as a supportrole.
Sometimes I get an instant commendation from a carry just because I stayed in lane with him and actually supported him with salves, maybe a tango, got the courier and let him farm freely.
Please tell me how to improve if with around 300 games there are still players who don't even get the very basics of dota. (It's a serious question, I'd very much like to know)
Dota is a very hard game to learn and to play. 300 games is not very many. I have played about 6,000 now and still have plenty to learn. Watching in TI3 I saw plenty of new things I had never thought of before...and I watched TI1 and TI2 also...every game, but the pros thought up new strats and tactics, new skill and item builds, and new hero comboes...even new ward spots since last year.
A player with 300 games might think they are experienced, but really they can't be. At most they could have played each hero 2 or 3 times...that's barely starting to learn them. Besides this many people learn far more slowly than is possible because they have simply repeated errors. If someone has played dota badly 300 times... well they only learned how to play dota badly.
To break-out you have to figure out how someone who is good does things better. People always say you can't support nubs...well its very hard but you can do it well enough that you win anyway...I can typically win supporting with 2 feeders. 3 feeders is too much for me...anyway the point is you need to get good enough to be noticed by good players as having a significant positive impact on the game so they want to play with you again.
If you want an example of how to support with some people on your team failing badly...watch my last Lich game.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/272197418
Also this game I added Shadow Shaman to my friends list because even though he randomed a hero he did not know how to play at all, he listened and learned, changed his skill and item build as I told him, changed how he was positioning in fights, etc. That's the sort of player I know I can count on to improve...plus he had good mouse control so I know he is actually talented, besides having a positive attitude.
You know I don't wanna flame you, but I think an improtant issue of the internet is that people don't really read what you've written: I'm not talking about being an experienced player with 300 games, I'm talking about knowing the mere BASICS of the game, like don't lasthit if you're support and the carry's in lane.
All I'm asking is a basic level of dota understanding on my level, but apparently that's already too much. Basics. I know that I'm no where near the level of a player with 1000 games. But that's not my point. BASICS!!!!!
I'll try to rephrase it. Sometimes my point gets lost in the wall.
You think you are ready to break out of games with players who don't know basics. You have over 50% win rate at 300 games so you are likely correct. You are ready....but still something is holding you back. I never have players who don't know basics in my games, I have not since my first few games of dota 2. Your MMR is still quite low...how to raise it?
There are a number of things you are not doing well enough to break out. It might be very close. Find some things you can improve just a bit. Don't get frustrated. Focus on a role. Focus on a few heroes. Focus on adding quality players to your friends list.
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Let's get specific.
You are 7-0 on warlock, that's not luck. You can play warlock far above your current MMR. So...play bunch of warlock games in a row until it gets hard to win. Then you will be at a lot higher MMR and start playing with better players.
Hm but that's a fair point: I always random nowadays, so I rarely play the same hero twice in like months (despite spectre who I randomed 3 times in the last weeks lol.)
So maybe, should I stop randoming and start picking some heroes directly?
just get wisp + ursa + treant or wisp + slark and win 25 games in a row and you are done
Try to pick a hero that either goes well with one or more heroes on your team or counters an enemy carry. Once I got, (vaguely-ish-still-really-bad-lol-faggot), slightly proficient at a few heroes, I managed to raise my win percentage by attempting to pick a hero that at least goes well with my team. Warlock if we had a gyro or lich if we had a void etc.
Despite being comically bad at this game I'm finding it a whole lot more fun than just, "I wanna play venomancer this game...so I will", it's also more satisfying when the rock/fatal bonds/calldown/flak cannon combo goes off and three or four enemy heroes melt away.
So yeah, try to pick a hero that goes well with others on your team and see how that goes.
@ Papa Het ---- Right, everyone has a huge range of skill depending on the hero.
My average hero plays on the high end of "High" or the low end of "Very High"...but some are way better and some are far worse.
My Visage play absolutely sucks compared to my Lich. So Visage is 1-8 win loss and Lich is 31-4 win loss. If I played only Visage I would drop in MMR until I was in the middle of High bracket and win 50/50 on visage. If I played only Lich I would rise until I was in games with weak pro players and win 50/50 on Lich. That is how the system works.
@Vaikiss: Wouldn't bother, the final was gash.
Oh no, that's right, it was a freakin' amazin' series of games. Some of the most entertaining gaming I have seen. Thank you Na'Vi and Alliance, was awesome.
I have a question actually. Check out my last Lich game, ( http://dotabuff.com/matches/270658349 ). Was a weird one. Random draft, our team has 4 supports and Bara. Enemy has 4 carries and jakiro.
I end up going mid Vs TA. TA has a bad time. I grab a kill as she wanders under my tower looking for a kill and forgets that towers and Lich nuke do quite a bit of damage early game.
I get 6 and gank bot with a chain frost double kill.
I gank top and get a kill on solo lane jakiro, (ikr...wtf!)
So here I am, on a kill streak, started mid, 2 levels higher than anyone else on the field and here's the question.
Assuming we didn't have such a retard line up as 4 supports, should I have carried on farming and taken the role of semi-carry or should I leave the farm and take up the support role as intended for the floating dead guy?
Really your line-up is very strong and theirs is terrible. Their only stun is icepath. It would have been hard to lose this game whatever you did.
4 supports and 1 carry is often quite good. 4 carries and 1 support is autoloss.
But to answer the question directly. When you have a big advantage you should attack and take more of the map, not farm. Farming is for when you can't attack right now because you are too weak.
Hm my pride only let me play random heroes so far... Guess I have to change that :). At least I already played every hero once... That should help a bit ^^
ok, but should I have carried on farming due to my good start, early kills and starting mid or should I have gone back to a support role?
@papa: Yeah, I wish I'd done that at the start instead of thinking to learn this moba witchcraft it would be best to play one hero over and over to work out wtf is going on...
No, when you are ahead just go kill them. Why sit around farming creeps? Look what DK did, farmed forever while ahead then lost 99 min game when they were way ahead the whole time. Farming when you are ahead just gives the other team more chances to come back.
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Here is another way to look at the divergence of your hero skill. If you only have a few games, well that could just be luck...but if you have a hero you have played a lot...
You know matching is trying to balance the teams for 50% win. Suppose you have a hero that is 5-15. You were supposed to win 10 games and lose ten but you played that hero so badly you lost half the games you were set up to win. Or supposed you have a hero that is 15-5; the reverse is true. You played so well on that hero you won half the games you were set up to lose.
Look at Vaikiss extremely powerful Death Prophet...39-4 win/loss, He won 17 of the 21 games matching set him up to lose because his DP is just to good. http://dotabuff.com/players/86777307/matches?hero=death-prophet&game_mode=&match_type=real
This hero he really could play on anyone's pro team do quite well. The handful of games he lost his team fed like mad and he still almost pulled it off.
Unfortunately no one is using DP right now, which I think is an oversight. The hero is excellent in so many situations and snowballs like crazy. 2307 pro matches so far this year and only 6 DP picks and 3 bans.
vaikiss has 90% win on DP because he was 5 man stacking and picking drow furion krob venge enigma every game, taking level 1 roshan and 5 man pushing and finishing the game in 15-20 minutes, obviously hes going to win 9/10 pubs like that with any hero
do you really think that every wisp player who has 80-90% win with the hero is competitively skilled or what
look i have 8/10 wins with potm and i havent played her in dota 1 at all, i must be an extremely proficient potm player? no its more like me having luck with MM teams with the particular hero and winning games even with 30% arrow accuracy
and then i have like 10% win with morphling who ive played tons in dota 1 and had a pretty good grasp of the hero so yeah youre wrong
the main reason of picking beastmaster/dp/warlock/visage was of quickpushing combining multiple auras and that worked
http://dotabuff.com/matches/273091211
ok i did what you told me guys, I didn't random, chose venge on purpose to support, stayed calm, we where behind by quite a bit but constant warding and supporting won us the game. Haven't had so much fun in a game in a long time. Thanks guys :D
EDIT: One more question's in my mind: Play with autoattack or not? With autoattack of you can't orbwalk, right? Or you just have to click the object everytime after animationcancelling? I still don't quite get that...
Autoattack off gives you more control over the precise movement of your hero. Autoattack on gives you easier control over your attack animation.
Watching pro games from their perspective they pretty much all have autoattack off. I find it significantly easier to lasthit with it on and I think nearly all players will also...if you are extremely talented having it off is probably better. Attack walking or orb walking is easier with autoattack off especially if there is some delay from high ping.
Since I am not that good at lasthitting I like to leave auto attack on and use the hold command whenever I really want it off temporarily.
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@Swiftending are you saying you think Vaikiss stacks when he plays DP...but not his other heroes? No he just wins on DP even if the game is hard. You only have 8 games of morphling so it is a small sample and I'm sure your 11% win morph is way better than my 44% win morphling...but you can't really think morphling is one of your strongest heroes when you consistently lost with it. Bad luck is not so bad that you get to 1-7...that's a real weakness. Maybe you need to change your build from dota 1? Maybe it doesn't work that well anymore since the nerf and meta game changes?
Even a player as good as Swiftending, and really he is as talented as about half of current pro players (though lacking pro experience)...There are still plenty of things you can improve and heroes you could play a lot better. If you are consistently losing on a hero in pubs...then you are not playing it as well as it can be played.
Any hero you like...there are players who are consistently winning with that hero in page 1 games. Just look to the top50 lists. Some people are kicking butt on every hero game after game.
Couldn't there be an argument made that it's not always that you aren't playing the hero right, as much as he's countered by whatever the opposing team picks?
I mean you've both played Morphling just 9 times. I think it's reasonable to believe that in half of those games there were lineups that outright destroyed your Morphling picks. Is it fair to say that the only reason you consistently lose on a hero is because it's played poorly? Especially when the sample size is so small?
Sure, if he played 50 games he might come up to 40% win or something...but if he was really so great at morphling he would win plenty even against counter picks. My best heroes win despite having 2 or 3 feeders, they win against pub smurf stacks...they just win win win unless a game is a total disaster because I know how to win with them in nearly every situation and execute in clutch moments when its very hard and I have crap items.
Vaikiss DP wins 90%+ not because its in a stack but because his DP is the core of that stack and kicks butt game after game. Being in a "stack" does not win 90% of games it doesn't even win 70% of games...rarely does just any stack win even 60%. It has to be a very strong strategy executed very well to do that.
Wisps do not win 95% of games by picking wisp as if that magically wins the game. Wisp has an average winrate of 43% this month. The best wisps win games not just because they are stacking but because they are really good at using wisp. If they were not, they would not be able to win that consistently.
Whenever you see some stack run a powerful strat and win nearly all games...and you think Oh that's just ...blah, blah, I can do that...really? can you? Do you know you can? Excuses don't win games. Stacking up 5 and actually having a plan and practicing it...that is superior dota play not a gimmick.
What is a championship pro team but a group of 5 who thought up several strong strategies, practiced their core heroes, pick the same stuff all the time and win win win? That is the very best way to play dota that is why it wins.
Every fucking I swear EVERY FUCKING GAME some dipshit calls 'mid' at the loading screen. What the fuck?!
@Swiftending...have you considered Fnatic.NoTail morphling?
http://dotabuff.com/players/19672354/matches?game_mode=&hero=morphling&match_type=real&page=4
A year ago he switched to this new plan where he gets bottle and rushed Eblade-BoT, he uses it whether he has a good stack or not. 84% win and you know he plays page 1 every game on the same EU servers you play. Is Fnatic.NoTail more talented than you? eh, maybe a bit, but its not a significant difference for pub play. You could do what he does on this hero.
relentless anyone can achieve %65 winrate by stacking and you are comparing those mediocre players with pro players
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Playing pubs has become even more frustrating. Ohgawd why did I watch TI3 I destroyed dota for me :'(