General DiscussionDid I Draft Wrong?

what was the midlane matchup?
Storm against weaver?
Should ask why storm didn't do well.
I don't think it was because of the draft.

Second game it looked like the team fight capability is just outmatched.
NS did well but wasnt able to shut down the fatass naix.
Maybe an offensive trilane could have helped. I'm assuming you guys went defensive tri against a solo dark seer?

As far as i understood, u are thinking of outpicking other team and wining by teamplay and better hero pick. It works whenever u are enough skilled. Imho ur teams' personal skill is quit low=)

Midlane was Storm against Weaver in the first posted match.

I'd not considered an aggressive trilane, so that was clearly my oversight. Are they usually opted for when the enemy teams carry can in theory out carry your own or something?

Incredibly low skill dota.

You lost to a retarded draft against bad players in game 1. I can get more farm than their entire team did in the same. Why did you max Feast first against a team with so much mobility? These are the kinds of games where you don't max feast first. Max feast is either for jungling or ricing build. Going the racecar build would have been extremely effective against such an early-mid oriented team, and given you a little more chasing power against such high MS heroes.

I can only assume that you and everyone else in that game is terrible given the data that is there. Why did BH buy a Battlefury? Its certainly a good item in many situations, but its also an incredible waste of money if its not bought appropriately. A very standard Phase -> Bottle + Janggo -> BKB would have been much more effective, and then extending into Battlefury. Battlefury is only appropriate for matches where the cleave is useful in team fights (ie. against illusion heroes) and for split pushing. A BKB here would allow him to constantly fuck with VS around the map, and not get raped in a team fight during ravage.

Game 2;
You picked NS first which is completely retarded. Why not pick Lone Druid, Naix or KOTL? Here are the 2 most basic, of basic things you should be doing when choosing first picks.
-Heroes that are ridiculously strong (LD, Naix, Magnus, Nyx, Bat Rider)
-Heroes that are very flexible and also top picks (KOTL, SD, Bat Rider, Lone Druid) with the exception of heroes that are not likely to be picked or banned

You chose NS. He can pretty much only play mid-lane, and now your opponent can pick whatever mid hero he wants that will shit all over you. Magnus is a different story because he is very difficult to dominate (bottle crow + shockwave spam) and RP makes up for any poor laning anyway. Why BH second? You need to think about who you are choosing, because there is no structure or synergy between your current heroes, and you have had absolutely no reason to pick either NS or BH, you seem to just be pulling heroes out of a hat or something. Learn to draft, it really is not that difficult.

Once again poor farm all round. Sven is an incredible flash farming hero once he has a few levels in cleave and his MoM. But you obviously have no idea how to play Sven. You do NOT take stats anymore. Depending on what you want to do, you either max warcry or cleave (possibly going 4-1-1-1 and then maxing out cleave, or if you want to gank a lot more, then max warcry). And you didn't even max Warcry. Do you want to know what makes Sven a ridiculous hero? Its that he can nullify the damage amplification that MoM gives by going magic immune with BKB, and having an insane amount of armor from Warcry. MAX THAT SHIT, no wonder you were getting raped by a a Naix, despite him being a trash player as well. Don't build Heart or something, build an AC, armor is everything, he is the only hero capable of dealing any notable damage to you while you have BKB up, you getting a reaver is just making his life easier.

I'm also wondering why there is not a single Forcestaff on the team, and why BH hasn't bought himself a BKB [the silence doesn't matter that much, its about not getting raped by a vacuum + ravage]

Get better at the game, that's the first step. You are "trying" to draft well, but you clearly have a pretty small understanding of the game which is ruining your attempts to draft, and even when you do draft well, you are losing to extremely bad opponents. Get better at the game, play more, actually take note of the interactions between heroes (synergy, counters, etc) and watch pro games. You will get a lot better at the game and at drafting.

the draft in second game was so bad and you guys are playing terrible, this is my opinion

The first game the enemy draft appears to be whatever heroes those players know how to play.
As it happens they are heroes that are not easy to gank. Meanwhile you picked a team that is intended to gank non-stop but it looks like you were not able to execute it.

The 2nd game NS does not fit your draft. There should have been another game delaying, teamfight hero in that spot. You let your sven farm up while you turtle, then win late.

Every dota game is won by taking towers. There are 4 basic ways to do it.

[1] You get an unstoppable push lineup with front line tanking like Chen creeps or Lone druid bear and tower killing power like Shadow Shaman wards or Dragon Knight or the bear again, backed up by some stuns and teamfight. You directly assault tower after tower and win.

[2] You get a powerful tower diving ganking lineup and "death ball" them. They can't defend towers because 2 of them got picked off so fast they could not come to help. Then you take the undefended tower. (this is what you picked game 1)

[3] You get a couple creep wave clearing defensive heroes like Kotl or Jakiro, get some teamfight like tide, enigma, Undying, Mag...something no one wants to have counter initiating on them, get a strong late game carry like PL, AM, Sven, Luna, Gyro, whatever. Then you farm and defend until your carry is so scary you can't lose. Then you take towers.

[4] You pick up global mobility like wisp + stunning carry, NP, Tinker etc get an extremely mobile carry like AM or Morphling and you split push. They can't attack the carry because you could all port into to save him and he can escape anything but a perfect gank. They can't attack the team because even if they win the fight the carry raxes their opposite lane in the meantime.

If your draft is not built on one of these 4 ways of taking towers then you are very likely to lose...unless the other team just fails.

Game 1 you picked ganking and the other team picked a strange and stupid mix of split push, teamfight, and gank. You lost on execution. In other words you just got badly out played.

Game 2 You both picked farm-up with teamfight. But they picked a much better set up for it...mostly because nightstalker does not work in that draft. In other words you got out drafted.

Also a few extra comments about game 2...

I bet you thought you were winning when NS started so well. But NS needs to go with a tower diving gank heavy line-up. You need to be able to turn his one kill into 2 and 3 and take a tower.

Your draft cannot beat their draft in a team fight. DS combo alone could win it for them. Your Sven, NS, and BH suddenly become 3 extra farmed carry heroes on their team. Since you can't fight DS you have to kill him before he can ult...but that's impossible because they have SD to save him. You can't jump in and burst anyone down, they have Silencer and Tide...late game they got 2 heroes with Fstaff...sven won't be able to hit anyone unless they totally fail to help their teammates. You do have a rubic to counter a bit, in theory, but is he Dendi? He does not have a bkb will he steal ravage when silenced by global silence?

Their teamfight is so much stronger than yours you don't have the slightest chance without a pick-off first and frankly since the have SD, they have to be really stupid to allow one of their heroes to die.

Anyway NS is a bad first pick always. This is because he gives away the draft. To make NS succeed you must go with a tower-diving gank strat. A defensive teamfight based strat will beat it unless your team is vastly more skilled, so counter drafting is easy when you see a fist pick NS.

The first set of picks should be things that do not reveal what you are doing. Heroes that could fit into more than one strategy.

I don't really wanna give a long reply, so ill keep it short.
1st game, your line-up was way too greedy, all 5 heroes needed many levels to be effective, u need heroes that can deliver at low levels, e.g. chen/shadow demon

2nd game, 1st pick NS gave away your draft, it was obvious u were going to do the iG facerush lineup, it wasnt really a bad draft, but your opponent knew what u were about to do from the start.

Why was weaver mid?
he either goes offlane or the main carry at the easy lane
and the other team picked a Spirit Breaker which is quiet shocking tbh..
I don't see how storm loses mid to weaver, he can just use remanent when weaver uses shukuchi, and weaver will suffer instead, and a sentry from any support would make weaver's life so hard, as the player wouldn't know that, and storm can easily kill weaver early lvls without weaver's ulti...

And another point, 1 sentry can own 2 heroes against u, and 1 sentry can own 2 heroes from ur team, I mean clinkz, weaver, BH, and nyx
so avoid picking many invisible dependant units, though I did this once, but the analysis of the game made me know that its wrong, but not the end of the world

And u favoured NS over kotl, naix, LD, though u still got the opportunity to pick kotl later
there r some heroes I think they must be picked/banned everygame

Top one is, Bat>Magnus>Wisp(if u think someone can play him)>LS>Kotl>Nyx(Kotl is better than nyx in low skilled games, but he easily counters Kotl)>LD(some ppl prefer LD more than others, ur preferance)>And ofc not to forget MEEPO!! #1 pick in pub matches with a shocking 70% winrate !!