General Discussion

General DiscussionShoving creeps in mid lane (Preferably 5k+ answer but whatever)

Shoving creeps in mid lane (Preferably 5k+ answer but whatever) in General Discussion
Niskara

    Say you're dominating a lane, do you show the wave or stay in lane to deny the enemy farm? E.g say you're playing TA in Invoker and you stomp the lane as TA, or you're playing Storm vs AM and you stomp the lane, what do you do? Do you shove the wave and farm jungle / rotate?

    Or your lane is ultra garbage I'm pretty sure you shove the wave and jungle to catchup.

    When is it worth to jungle when your lanes awful in mid, or do you try stay and get xp and some cs

    Give me examples of situations and heroes

    I already have a good idea of what to do, but I want to see what other peoples opinions are and what are more efficient and better ways to do this. Thanks

    oof

      i feel like it should be in general worth more to stay in lane than it used to be unless you can clear camps super fast at low cost (like radiant side sf) because of the jungle camp change (1 min spawns less gold).

      🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

        both, at the start you harass and deny, later on once you've already gotten starting farm now you just shove and farm the sidecamps.

        Autumnus

          In battle cup games, since im the only 4k player in our team and the rest are 5k mmr players, our mid laner never leaves lane and just tells our hard support to stack, even if it is an invoker vs ta matchup, since it would be ta who will go jungle later, or if he plays od against ember, he never leaves the lane and asks us supports to stack for later, AND IF HE IS INDEED STRUGGLING we 2 supports would gank mid and kill the enemy mid laner.

          Jacked

            why do i feel like you posted the exact same post before.

            Jacked

              i constnatly ask myself this question in the safelane as well. uve kinda won the lane, when do u start shoving it in

              evy

                When the offlaner is going back to base xd

                dunce

                  Just don't miss lane farm

                  Jacked

                    ^yes. i think the answer is when u can accelerate your farm without missing lane farm.... so whenever that timing is.

                    Chiwa

                      I think shoving wave is a bad idea when you know enemy is waiting to last hit under their tower , i played an offlane sand king game just now , after i died 3 time i wouldnt dare to come out from my offlane tower and when i didnt come to lane enemy carry keep shoving the wave to me to last hit under my tower while he rotate to side camp . Which make me still get decent dagger timing even with 3 death

                      core or whore

                        just my 2 cents
                        when im tilted i always struggle to make a descision like this
                        so yesterday i made up some rule/guide for myself:

                        if i play farming heroes like sf lina: no matter how much i own the lane i will always shove it stick to my farming pattern because it really hinders your potential when u stay lane when u can famr lane and jungle super fast. it depends tho (they have kill potential but it relies on the enemy being out of position/low health or with supports.)

                        if i play heroes like storm puck: it depends on the matchup, if i have high kill potential ill hold lane if no rune will spawn.

                        heroes like invoekr tinker comes to mind that dont really want to push out the waves because they cant clear jungle camps efficiently.

                        ^this is when you are stomping mid

                        when you have garbage lane now its your turn to ask yourself does he have a high kill potential on me? if yes jungle if not scrap whatever you can

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                        🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

                          i'm not sure how anyone struggles with this decision, just shove the fucking wave in.

                          one syllable anglo-saxon

                            if u can grab a jungle camp inbetween waves without losing anything there's no reason not to

                            Yung Beethoven

                              ^ this is the guideline you got to be thinking of (Even Missing one creep isnt going to hurt you that much).

                              Look at this perspective you could either shoving the lane into the enemy twr and farm the jungle ( which results in you getting even more farm and the enemy getting last hits under twr (if he can do that, some hereos struggle with that))
                              or stay on the lane (on of the lanes will start to push, lets say its yours) and you get the "normal" amount of farm and experience (sure, you can deny some creeps and even harrass the mid, but so does he ) BUT you are putting yourself in a bad position. The moment your lane pushes and you follow the lane you are more likely to get killed by a roaming support. In Comparison it shows us that shoving in and farming the jungle is getting you more farm and security.

                              But when do you NOT shove the lane in ( when do you not leave the lane ).
                              You dont leave the lane if you are really dominating it and can srsly destroy the enemy mid if he comes to close or in a bad position. If that is the case the enemy mid has 2 options: either he is going jungle or he is feeding you some kills. Every sane player would rather go jungle than staying on this lane. If that is the case you obviously stay on the lane!

                              Jacked

                                The question is not about do u do it or do u not do it. The really difficult question is when to start doing it.

                                fx

                                  ^ no dude both is the same side of coin. I think "when" is not the problem

                                  Jacked

                                    if when is not the problem, what is? u start shoving the lane it at some point. the question is always when u do it? u dont just hold the lane indefinitely.

                                    evy

                                      All the time obviously, the 1k support's way if autoattacking the wave was correct, all along

                                      Autumnus

                                        ^They spam spells on creeps right?

                                        Jacked

                                          they spam spells whenever its off cool down. its smart because no one buys regen

                                          twitch.tv/afeect

                                            kill the wave fast, go jungle.

                                            Player 368673122

                                              i think ppl are neglecting the possibility that a kill on their mid potentially could be secured if you don't shove and dominate lane to see how they react
                                              but yes, if they are playing too safe and not giving any window of opportunity for a kill and showing no signs of contesting your dominance over the lane then increase your gpm by only way there is, shove n jungle n be back for the next wave to shove nigga

                                              all role player

                                                shove the lane = safelane main
                                                dominate the lane = offlane main
                                                ????

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                                                ywn

                                                  lol

                                                  meteor hammer

                                                    shove the lane = safelane main
                                                    dominate the lane = offlane main
                                                    ????

                                                    in general decisions should be made based on the needs of the game, not habit